Taiwan martial arts demo

[wiesiek]

and here I found soft and hard very well connected :

https://youtu.be/dSL9KFFYG_s

[Bao]

You seem to be confused about, having an empty cup and the one offering tea.

LOL! Almost spilled my coffee. You're a funny guy W.W.

Useful skill sets or not, why people demo things they do might have to do with "culture". It can be hard to understand.

A demonstration is a demonstration and should, IMHO, always be judged as a demonstration. Just because those Taekwondo guys jump high in demos and kick bats in pieces in mid-air doesn't mean they can do anything they do in the show for real. A show is a show. So why argue about it?

You can think that something looks strange or stupid, but there are still individual people behind it, common people who struggle with life just like anyone else. They practice what they practice for very different reasons. IMO, it's better to look at a show as entertainment and don't spend too much time thinking about it. If you want to understand why they do what they do, approach the people IRL and speak with them.

[middleway]

A demonstration is a demonstration and should, IMHO, always be judged as a demonstration.

It should, however, be VERY easy to explain the purpose of a demonstration. The TKD guys are showing off their athleticism and ability to kick with Accuracy. Two things that can be extrapolated to a martial context. The problem with the demonstration posted here is that a) it cannot be explained or justified with rational argument it seems, and b) it does not even Map onto our understanding of Physics or biomechanics, regardless of what WW claims.

Maybe it is a demonstration of Group Psychosis or hypnosis, but then why not simply say that ?

[wiesiek]

and
finally, to have some fun- fake or reality , - we have here Jake and Master Wong too!:

https://youtu.be/2KgmBzgQuVQ

[wiesiek]

hehe
Jacke Chan breakin` cement block while keepin` egg in his fist :
https://youtu.be/TjC8R5cVV1Y

[Bao]

A demonstration is a demonstration and should, IMHO, always be judged as a demonstration.

It should, however, be VERY easy to explain the purpose of a demonstration. The TKD guys are showing off their athleticism and ability to kick with Accuracy. Two things that can be extrapolated to a martial context.

I don't fully agree. Purpose or not, the most TKD people who demonstrate things in shows or even win competitions can not fight for real. The same goes for a demo like in the OP. Regardless if the skills are true or not, it still doesn't mean that they are useful in a real fight or that the demonstrators can fight.

The problem with the demonstration posted here is that a) it cannot be explained or justified with rational argument it seems, and b) it does not even Map onto our understanding of Physics or biomechanics, regardless of what WW claims.

Maybe it is a demonstration of Group Psychosis or hypnosis, but then why not simply say that?

What is there more to explain than people jumping around? It's a show and they demonstrate for a show. Of course everyone will cooperate to make the show good. A demo have nothing to do with if something is real or useful in any other context. Everything you will see in a staged demo is faked. It's just a show. But IMO, this kind of demo needs a cultural context. It's not easy to understand for any of us who were not born and raised in this culture.

[Bao]

and here I found soft and hard very well connected :

https://youtu.be/dSL9KFFYG_s

At 7.00-02, he bumps in to a student with force. When he can break rocks and show off being so strong, why does nothing happen with the student? Break his chest? Spits blood? Not much power in that attack.

At about 16.00, there's the Wudang "master" You Xuande. He has schools all over the world, even here. I've found some ingredients of their qigong and tai chi slightly interesting though... From what I have read, this a well known conman who has had lot of trouble with the authorities, a former thief who has faked his whole lineage and background. Can't find links to that info though, maybe gone so I should probably keep my mouth shut. But anyway, not even his demo is good. There's no timing, no leading and no real connection to his opponent. More forcing than leading. When his student is so unbalanced, it should take much less to topple him. I bet he couldn't move anyone on this board even an inch.

[windwalker]

b) it does not even Map onto our understanding of Physics or biomechanics, regardless of what WW claims.

Maybe it is a demonstration of Group Psychosis or hypnosis, but then why not simply say that ?

Maybe because its not.
just watched it again...

I am interested in what is not mapping into your understanding of physics
if its a little to much, no problems.

[middleway]

WW are you a physicist?

I am interested in what is not mapping into your understanding of physics
if its a little to much, no problems.

It is not too much.

Take your pick ..pretty much all of it where there is no contact and the reaction is severe.

Maybe because its not.

Then what is it?

[windwalker]

WW are you a physicist?

I am interested in what is not mapping into your understanding of physics
if its a little to much, no problems.

It is not too much.

Take your pick ..pretty much all of it where there is no contact and the reaction is severe.

Maybe because its not.

Then what is it?

does this map to physics?

watch closely how Peter brings the chair back,, he just does not slide it back...on a straight plane.

speaking of physics pls watch the OP clip again closely.
notice how the teacher draws them in, before they can move back he suddenly raises.
He has to know the transition point between them coming in and starting to draw back.

He does this a number of times, compresses his body, "drawing them in" and releasing just before they start to pull back
he has to make "higher seem higher, and lower seem lower" before adding
to their own intent going back...like releasing a bow string .......

WW are you a physicist?

some of the people I work with are,
we examine taiji theory and how it relates to physics.

[middleway]

does this map to physics?

speaking of physics pls watch the OP clip again closely.
notice how the teacher draws them in, before they can move back he suddenly raises.
He has to know the transition point between them coming in and starting to draw back.

He does this a number of times, compresses his body, "drawing them in" and releasing just before they start to pull back
adding to their own force going back...like releasing a bow string .......

Yes that is call gravity. What peter is doing is simply to demonstrate and understand. Just like raising your foot to someones balls will make them move without having to touch them. These tricks can be useful. They are not what the demo shows, and if it is based on those concepts they have ran with them too far into the realm of psychological reprograming and mass delusion.

How does the teacher draw them in? why does him raising cause this response only in his students?

Nothing you just said maps onto an interpretation using physics. No it absolutely is not like Releasing a bow string ... that relies on physical interactions between meterials and structures. I wonder if you can try again with less ambiguity?

some of the people I work with are,
we examine taiji theory and how it relates to physics.

Cool, I also know some physicts and engineers too. It seems your physict friends are equally as succeptable to this stuff as you .. we are all human i supose.

EDIT: you kept editing your post so i am having to add some things.

[windwalker]

How does the teacher draw them in? why does him raising cause this response only in his students?

How do you know it only works on "his" students,
where they his students before becoming his students?

As to how,,,the Peter Ralston clip partially answered it,,,,,

anyway thanks for the input....appreciated

[middleway]

As to how,,,this is done the first clip partially answered it,,,,,

anyway thanks for the input....appreciated

As always, no answers. Its a shame when people are trapped down a rabbit hole so far they can no longer see daylight.

I havnt provided any input, i have asked for answers. They are, as always, not forthcoming.

[GrahamB]

This thread is heading towards 8 pages of nonsense and fortune cookie wisdom... and the video I posted the day before this one of the Yongquan demo from London has zero comments...

I think that says it all about why these guys are demonstrating these bizarre things... lol!

[robert]

Emitted qi is not a question for physics, but the scientific method. Back in 1996 a fourth grader, Emily Rosa, tested Therapeutic Touch (TT) practitioners who claimed they could feel a "Human Energy Field" (HEF) emanating from a human body. She tested 21 people and none of them passed her test.

There is good reason to say emitted qi is BS. There is zero evidence to support it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Rosa

Some healers claim they can feel the energy of these elusive and ineluctable biofields, vibrations, auras, or rays. Therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners make this claim. Twenty-one practitioners, who knew from much experience that they could feel the energy around the bodies of patients, were tested. They had never been tested, however, in a situation where they could not see the source of the alleged "energy field." Nine-year-old Emily Rosa tested these energy healers to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Most likely they are detecting what has been suggested to them by those who taught them this practice. Their feelings of energy detection appear to be manufactured in their own minds. Krieger has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Krieger has not been tested.


http://www.skepdic.com/tt.html

It has been disproved by a 9 year old