Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 1:58 pm

Mayweather will cover up when/if he's in trouble, and he'll also hold. He's a defensive counter-puncher, and you're right about his general guard position. His high (vertical) right guard protects his head and keeps him ready to reply. For that matter, telling a tcc person (facing a boxer or anyone) to keep his hands up usefully seems like common sense. Part of the reason is that boxers train to exploit that defect. By keeping his lead arm low and using his shoulder to deflect, he is able to protect his mid-section and use his left as a follow up.

Otoh, don't forget his conditioning, speed, footwork, and head movement :). Have you watched his fights with Canelo and Cotto?
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 2:06 pm

Btw, I think one problem is that if someone takes a technique or approach from another martial art, it's considered cross-training or mixing. Yet, imho, the quickest way to develop one's "pure" tcc is, in fact, to practice it with people who practice their own martial art. Of course, this means losing ... a lot. Well, unless one looks at it as a way of learning. What is the best way to deal with a muay thai kick, or a head clinch, or ... you get the idea. Unfortunately, this means admitting that one is studying something. Oh, the horror (:.
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Strange on Fri May 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Steve James wrote:Unfortunately, this means admitting that one is studying something. Oh, the horror (:.


hur hur hur :)
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Steve James on Fri May 19, 2017 6:33 pm

Yeah, but people talk about "in taiji" or "taichi" as if it's a general tcc ability or transmitted skill. If it were, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

We want to see tcc practitioners deal with muay thai practitioners much better than the examples we have seen. Future competitors, if they choose, need to see examples, not hear stories.

Frankly, telling someone that in taichi, "this is how it would be done" --when it comes to an mt roundhouse is a sure way to injury. But, ok, getting out of the way and not getting hit will always work for a while. There's no need to debate it, though.

I'm curious if there are any specific form adaptations or applications that one might suggest.
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby windwalker on Fri May 19, 2017 6:49 pm

the skill is called understanding force,
if one really has the skill the shape or how the force is applied matters little,
the principles by which one deals with it are the same.
Last edited by windwalker on Sat May 20, 2017 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby everything on Fri May 19, 2017 6:59 pm

Steve James wrote:Mayweather will cover up when/if he's in trouble, and he'll also hold. He's a defensive counter-puncher, and you're right about his general guard position. His high (vertical) right guard protects his head and keeps him ready to reply. For that matter, telling a tcc person (facing a boxer or anyone) to keep his hands up usefully seems like common sense. Part of the reason is that boxers train to exploit that defect. By keeping his lead arm low and using his shoulder to deflect, he is able to protect his mid-section and use his left as a follow up.

Otoh, don't forget his conditioning, speed, footwork, and head movement :). Have you watched his fights with Canelo and Cotto?


Haven't seen those but will get around to it after these recent threads.
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby everything on Fri May 19, 2017 7:10 pm

Most of our discussion and criticisms would apply to judo or traditional or Brazilian jiu-jitsu systems that some say are "complete" (in the sense they have strikes, locks, throws, but not necessarily groundfighting). Yet no one asks how judo would defend strikes from striking specialists. Even if you look at an Olympic medalist like Rousey, learning some kata (if they ever do it) and some boxing is eventually really not enough. If you look at Fedor, however (mainly Sambo/Judo), he clearly studied way more boxing and kickboxing (trained by Ernesto Hoost for example) to the point he had spectactular fights and striking against Cro Cop. There is some implication you shouldn't do that. Sambo is already a complete system. Why not just use sambo? There is some weird 20th century pre-1995 UFC argument here that no longer makes sense in 2017.
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Strange on Fri May 19, 2017 7:16 pm

windwalker wrote:the skill is called understanding force


this one required study AND forgetting about silk jammies
i think it's gonna be challenging :D
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Re: Traditional Muay Thai (Chaiya) against rapid punches

Postby Steve James on Sat May 20, 2017 11:40 am

Here are some examples of Mayweather needing to cover up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ofeqQ_ljCk
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