the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

In my experience the punching and kicking in Aikido is pretty lame. If look at the advanced practitioners like Christian Tissier, you will find out he has a boxing/karate background, which also makes his Aikido more realistic, but strictly spoken Aikido don't learn to punch or kick. A couple of years back i visited an Aikido school together with my teacher to teach them a little bit of pukulan, but quickly found out that most of the attacks are based on sword-attacks, so they were totally not used to straight-on attacks. And that also goes for the blackbelts over there with 20 years plus experience.

RobP3 wrote:It might be optimistic to expect there is no adrenalin dump in a self defence situation. Skills or attributes developed in isolation have to be linked back into the "real world" or they tend to disappear under pressure

Sometimes a real situation happens so quick that you have no time to build up adrenaline. If there's a lot of quarrelling, "pushing", shovelling etc, that's another thing. Reality is diversed, but mostly a real confrontation will be nothing like a fight on the mat, friendly or not. You cannot prepare yourself mentally for real violence and how you are going to react in real situations by practicing sparring or competing.

Bao wrote:

RobP3 wrote:It might be optimistic to expect there is no adrenalin dump in a self defence situation. Skills or attributes developed in isolation have to be linked back into the "real world" or they tend to disappear under pressure

Sometimes a real situation happens so quick that you have no time to build up adrenaline. If there's a lot of quarrelling, "pushing", shovelling etc, that's another thing. Reality is diversed, but mostly a real confrontation will be nothing like a fight on the mat, friendly or not. You cannot prepare yourself mentally for real violence and how you are going to react in real situations by practicing sparring or competing.

I never said you could, though they may help, depending. But there are other methods that will help, tried and tested. And chemical dump can happen very quickly

RobP3 wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:The same guy in a sudden self defence situation where he doesn't know who his opponent is might do quite well.
What do they call it in the UFC adrenalin dump when they first get in the cage

It might be optimistic to expect there is no adrenalin dump in a self defence situation. Skills or attributes developed in isolation have to be linked back into the "real world" or they tend to disappear under pressure

I have might not have expressed myself well there
The aikido guy going into the ring with someone who he new was skilled in that situation might have made him over cautious
In a real life situation he might think his training gave him an advantage and act as though he was in the drivers seat
I have seen people with a little training through themselves into situations that they weren't ready for and come out on top due to bravado

Bao wrote:Here it's not Aikido that sucks, it's the person who sucks because he hadn't done any fighting before and he had certainly not practiced to use his art In a free fighting situation.

Aikido guy wants to "modernize" Aikido, so it can be effective in the ring/cage and in the street. As in his opinion/experience, traditional Aikido doesn't provide that.

Here is an update.

AikidoSiauliai
Published on Nov 6, 2017

In this video Pro UFC fighter, Tai Chi practitioner Nick Osipczak is giving tips on a live Skype session to an Aikido instructor who is interested to modernize his Aikido to present standards of effective martial arts. This is a video of the full training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV2Gpozt058

marvin8 wrote:

Bao wrote:Here it's not Aikido that sucks, it's the person who sucks because he hadn't done any fighting before and he had certainly not practiced to use his art In a free fighting situation.

Aikido guy wants to "modernize" Aikido, so it can be effective in the ring/cage and in the street. As in his opinion/experience, traditional Aikido doesn't provide that.

Here is an update.

AikidoSiauliai
Published on Nov 6, 2017

In this video Pro UFC fighter, Tai Chi practitioner Nick Osipczak is giving tips on a live Skype session to an Aikido instructor who is interested to modernize his Aikido to present standards of effective martial arts. This is a video of the full training:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV2Gpozt058

If one think about Aikido as beautifully throwing people around it's not going to work. But instead focus on the core, the concept of Aiki and experiment how to apply that in the ring/cage. I would guess Aiki is occasionally already applied by some ring/cage participants without themselves knowing it

This is a really interesting video from the same channel.



Love that the guy is working on his personal growth

middleway wrote:This is a really interesting video from the same channel.



Love that the guy is working on his personal growth

However, one doesn't want to grow bad habits by jumping into sparring before proper education, basics, technique, drilling, etc. It takes more than watching a few youtube videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOiOhaHWtIg

has nobody posted the Nicholas Pettas video where he meets the aikido guys

UUUGGGHH....Style vs style Is this the 90's again?

Knowing your enemy or at least some basic understanding is important. Essentially it wasn't even remotely fair, it's as if he just got his basic drivers license and then thinks he's going to race Nascar on and REAL TRACK.

*Nobody does that, not without preparation. I could help this guy in one day if he were at my school. How could he hope to enter the MMA ring unless he prepared a bit with someone who has actually fought in there?

It's not the fault of Aikido...it's not about which style is better. After all MMA just means Mixed Martial Arts...and often times that is a mixture of Traditional Martial Arts skills as well.

Plenty of MMA fighters who know how to set up stuff that is considered more "Traditional". So style is not the issue...the individual's experience, toughness, heart and YES, AS WE'RE ALWAYS SAYING...THE SET UP.

Not that I need to hear him say it (cause it was obvious) but whence he said "it was his 1st time in the ring" that pretty much says it all.

More importantly, he went into the ring UN familiar with boxing...which is universally THE MODERN BASE you need to understand if you want to fight.

More over, IMO...if he really wanted to test his style up to what he had been learning (which doesn't train for the ring) more accurately as an experiment. HE should do LIVE Self Defense senarios 1st. He could get a LIVE Opponent to attempt to run up to him and steal his brief case. Fight off a guy, pretending to be a kidnapper trying to pull you into a van. (I know it sounds silly) Get 3 or more guys to be like the gypsies who all jump on you at once to pin you down and try to steal your wallet.

This is completely doomed to failure right from the start. Look at Jason Delucia. A 5-animal kungfu guy who fought and lost in the early UFCs to Royce Gracie. He went on to fight Pancrasse in Japan and racked up an impressive fight record. He eventually come out with his version of "combat aikido" that blended aikido with MMA inclduing sparring. I swear, his videos are straight-up fighting baguazhang if anything on video is. I highly recommending downloading this series.



Thing is, he was completely dismissed by the aikido community who only wanted to know two things: what his belt rank was and who his "master" was. They cared absolutely nothing about his fight record or his skills. In fact, those seemed to be a huge negative in that community. Epicly pathetic.

The MMA crowd completely dismissed him as a "loser" because he lost to Royce twice, as if losing to one of the best in the world at that time made you a loser. So Jason's efforts went absolutely no where, just where this guy's efforts in these new clips is likely to go.

Traditional arts are just dead. They have and will continue to refuse every effort to change because they are incapable of change. The traditional power structure of arts like aikido and taichi insulate themselves from the disaster of their obvious flaws. This makes the efforts of reformers like Delucia a complete waste of time. Better to just do something new and go off on your own.

i think it is also down to a bit how you train the art..

i remember visiting my aikido teacher's school in Puerto Rico (maybe around 1993-5) (we were on a neighboring island and he would come over and teach us)
and the higher belts when practicing randori (free practice) (1 on 1 or 1 against multiple people)
they would really try to do each other in...
bruises, black eyes, blood.. were what i saw...

from what I saw the training was good..

but then again it was not like a sparring match with the back and forth shuffling..
they were committed attacks -- meant to do harm though..

Franklin wrote: but then again it was not like a sparring match with the back and forth shuffling..
they were committed attacks -- meant to do harm though..

So more realistic in the useful, everyday sense . In most circumstances: if an aggressor starts shuffling back and forth to 'fight' you, you can/should leave. If he tries to stop you leaving, then it's an unambiguous committed attack again.
Obviously...