Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Fuyuan on Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:59 am

Interesting thread
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:10 am

It seems everyone gets the chopping energy, but the splitting energy is still a mystery. We started down that path when someone mentioned the back hand, but then it got diverted toward weapon work. -shrug-
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:12 pm

Splitting comes from the sharpness of the blade
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:01 pm

I don't do xingyi, but from your description, it seems like the difference is between the action and the result. I.e., a chop will split.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Strange on Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:59 pm

we got some guy who translated the chinese word for eagle into and english word chicken,
and you propose to find the real meaning of the fist through a translated word?
dunno about you, but to me this logic is simply stupendously amazing!
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:11 pm

No, I suspect a Xing I player would know the fist by the feeling of its execution.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Strange on Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:43 pm

anyone knows about or is able to produce a meter/scope/instrument
whereby we are able to attach by way of wires and/or transmitters
such that we are able to obtain and empirical force feeling reading
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Wanderingdragon on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:46 am

Splitting 劈 Pī Metal Like an axe chopping up and over.
Pounding 炮 Pào Fire Exploding outward like a cannon while blocking.
Drilling 鑽 Zuān Water Drilling forward horizontally like a geyser.
Crossing 橫 Héng Earth Crossing across the line of attack while turning over.
Crushing 崩 Bēng Wood Arrows constantly exploding forward.


Chopping/Splitting
Pounding/Exploding
Drilling/Rising
Crossing/Overturning
Crushing/Springing
Last edited by Wanderingdragon on Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby kenneth fish on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:41 am

At its basic level, the forward hand strikes forward and down (the arc may be long or short depending on which version of Xingyi - Li Cunyi vs Shanxi etc). The retreating hand pulls down and back. The effect is described in Chinese as like pulling apart a piece of firewood (forward hand presses forward and down with the palm, rear hand pulls back and down with the fingers).

Note that this is a description of the trajectory and intent, but not the mechanics. In the torso the forward hand is driven by movement of the entire ribcage on the same side pressing forward, as well as compression of the intercostal spaces and forward and down movement of the entire torso with the hip joint as the pivot point (as if the torso were a second class lever and the hip the fulcrum).

Again, this is at the basic level - eventually there are far more mechanical forces brought into play.
Last edited by kenneth fish on Mon Aug 21, 2017 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:25 pm

Wanderingdragon wrote:Splitting 劈 Pī Metal Like an axe chopping up and over.
Pounding 炮 Pào Fire Exploding outward like a cannon while blocking.
Drilling 鑽 Zuān Water Drilling forward horizontally like a geyser.
Crossing 橫 Héng Earth Crossing across the line of attack while turning over.
Crushing 崩 Bēng Wood Arrows constantly exploding forward.


Splitting/chopping
Pounding/exploding
Drilling/rising
Crossing/overturning
Crushing/springing



Really don't like the last two
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby I-mon on Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:20 pm

kenneth fish wrote:At its basic level, the forward hand strikes forward and down (the arc may be long or short depending on which version of Xingyi - Li Cunyi vs Shanxi etc). The retreating hand pulls down and back. The effect is described in Chinese as like pulling apart a piece of firewood (forward hand presses forward and down with the palm, rear hand pulls back and down with the fingers).


That's a fantastic analogy and one that I hadn't heard before. Thanks Ken!
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby kenneth fish on Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:12 pm

De nada!
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby dspyrido on Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:42 pm

None of the elements are single directional so the fixation on chopping and trying to align to an axe or other weapon is only half the picture.

In all of ima there is balance - it's not recommended to train one leg to kick or one hand to punch.

In earth power is not issued to the left and goes soft to the right.

Similarly why train one hand or both hands to drop with power and to rise without it.

The metal visualisation method is - tear down the sky like holding a chain tied to the top of tree that is being torn down. Tear up the earth like a tree is being torn out from the roots.

Its all in the ability to focus the will to condition for power. Then it's a far easier path to learn technqiues and tactics.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby Josealb on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:26 am

For what its worth, when i started training, whenever i was confused about a detail in element expression, i used to go watch some quality Dai Xinyi videos. They always managed to help me understand what the body was supposed to be doing during the elements, applied to a Xing Yi context. The arms and hands are where the force ends and shoots out, after all, and not where the force is born.
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Re: Pi Quan - “Splitting fist” or “Chopping fist”

Postby greytowhite on Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:50 pm

I've been waiting to see what ToD has to contribute - the xingyi he showed me a little of was very different from the Kenny Gong stuff I've been exposed.
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