ba ji

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ba ji

Postby windwalker on Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:42 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTxzd_LKIew

In Hsinchu, where I practice there is a Ba ji, teacher training a student
interesting style and training.

The clip has English subtitles as well as some commentary by Adam Hsu, at 16:20
he says he couldn't get it, and so was directed to learn taiji.

This may not be understood out side of CMA, some styles are not suited for some people
while others may fit them better.

30:30

spear play sparring, nice to see basic practices put to real use.
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:05 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: ba ji

Postby Trick on Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:11 am

windwalker wrote:
This may not be understood out side of CMA, some styles are not suited for some people
while others may fit them better.

One of my TJQ teachers who also teach Tongbeiquan(and his Tongbeiquan teacher) insisted I should practice TBQ because of my 'long' arms :)
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Re: ba ji

Postby robert on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 am

windwalker wrote:The clip has English subtitles as well as some commentary by Adam Hsu, at 16:20
he says he couldn't get it, and so was directed to learn taiji.

This may not be understood out side of CMA, some styles are not suited for some people
while others may fit them better.

That may be the case, but since Adam Hsu does baji your interpretation/understanding doesn't make sense to me. Adam seems to be saying that he didn't get neijin (relaxed strength) so his baji teacher took him to a friend, a taiji instructor. After developing neijin he must have gone back and studied baji some more. It seems like Liu Yunqiao wasn't able to get the idea of neijin across to Adam so he took him to a taiji guy, his friend, to see if he might have better luck. Based on what's in the video I can't say if it was a different art that made the difference or a different teacher.
Try not to let the words confuse you — they serve no other purpose than to guide you into the inner structures of Taiji. Chen Xin
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Re: ba ji

Postby windwalker on Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:22 pm

robert wrote:
windwalker wrote:The clip has English subtitles as well as some commentary by Adam Hsu, at 16:20
he says he couldn't get it, and so was directed to learn taiji.

This may not be understood out side of CMA, some styles are not suited for some people
while others may fit them better.

That may be the case, but since Adam Hsu does baji your interpretation/understanding doesn't make sense to me. .


Met Adam long ago when he had classes in the panhandle golden gate park. At the time he was teaching bagau among other things.
Very nice guy and knowledgeable. My comment was only in reference to what he mentioned in the clip, others I've met also suggested
that some styles might better suited for different body types or personalities.
Sometimes people just can't get it at the time. Does not mean they won't later.

For some who've studied many things they may never really pick up the true flavor of a style.
This happens a lot with taiji were a lot of teachers teach it as an adjunct to their main style.

For others what ever they studied before seems to leak through, noticed this a lot with some teaching
taiji who have back grounds in S-mantis....
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Re: ba ji

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:17 am

In Taiwan, it's always easy to tell if someone is from Wutan's lineage. Everything they do -- from Mantis, Chen Taiji, Mizong, to Bagua -- has a "Baji feel" to it.
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Re: ba ji

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:26 am

C.J.W. wrote:In Taiwan, it's always easy to tell if someone is from Wutan's lineage. Everything they do -- from Mantis, Chen Taiji, Mizong, to Bagua -- has a "Baji feel" to it.


It is interesting as an experiment in answering some of my own questions I took 10yrs in finding my own answers and only practiced according to my last taiji teacher.
.
A friend of mine who often traveled with me to China, once remarked that he still saw the white crane I had practiced in my movements, something I had thought I had left long ago.

Now in returning to my practice, and combining aspects of both I've found my own answers and understanding.
Checking in with one of my old teachers, he remarked that while it very much resembled what we had trained long ago
it was also unique and different.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ba ji

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:17 am

In my experience, it's usually the first art you practice (or the one you've worked the hardest on) that becomes ingrained in the body.

But these days I do not care much for stylistic appearances, techniques, and boundaries anymore. It all boils down to essential body mechanics (i.e., how speed, power, and stability are created through specialized body use found in a particular system).

My main art is Bagua, but I have been experimenting and found that I can also do it using the body mechanics from the systems I've studied in the past, namely Chen/CMC Taiji, Xingyi, Fujian White Crane, with each having its strengths and weaknesses.
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Re: ba ji

Postby Ron Panunto on Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:04 pm

Where did they get those carbon fiber long poles that break down into smaller ones?
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Re: ba ji

Postby Bob on Tue Oct 03, 2017 7:46 am

http://www.adamhsu.com/articles/taiwanb ... fuLiu.html

IN MEMORY OF SIFU LIU YUN-CHIAO

(雲樵先師與我入門受教的回憶)

How I Became Accepted as His Student
By Adam Hsu
(Translated by Joan-Huey Dow)

He ( Liu Yunnqiao) said: "I know you want to learn baji quan, but it is not suitable for you to start learning baji quan right now. You have many old movements, old habits, that you need to shed completely. I’ve decided that you should learn pigua zhang first. Do you agree?"

I was very disappointed and hesitated to accept. I did not know what to do!? But I had no other choice and answered: "Yes, sir."

Under Sifu Liu's one-on-one training, I felt tremendous pain and developed self-doubt both physically and mentally. I did learn many basic movements of pigua zhang. However the corrections I received from Sifu Liu during my practice seemed to be always like:

"Relax, relax more, relax even more... "


Relax more? I would no longer be able to practice if I relaxed more! I could only scream silently in my heart and feel like I was being treated unfairly.

Would I stop practicing? Giving up was never an option for me. Sifu Liu was very critical in correcting my unacceptable movements - too loose, too soft, or incorrect. Sifu Liu never let any of my mistakes slip by unnoticed.

Quite often I repeated the same movements ten times, twenty times, even thirty times... Sifu Liu still shook his head and said:

"No. It's wrong. Do it again!"

Furthermore, what made me most unhappy were the comments like: "Too loose!" "Too tight!" "This is too loose again!" "That is too tight again!" "Why is it so loose here?" "Why is it so tight there?"

It seemed I never did it right!

That was a hot summer in Taipei. Just standing still, I was soaking wet with my own sweat. . . .

Gradually, I realized: Relaxation is the beginning of wushu practice. If we don't relax completely, the practice will be all in vain. Relaxation enables flow while tension forms blockages. Incomplete relaxation will end up incomplete practice.

Gradually, I realized more: There is a balance between relaxation and tension: It is the ultimate goal pursued by all arts. In other words: Well circulated qi is obtained through a focused mind and relaxed body. (意緊形鬆氣乃周) It is not appropriate to over-relax, that is not the right way to practice.

Gradually, I realized even more: There is no fixed ratio between relaxation and tension that can be used anywhere and anytime. Relaxed but not completely relaxed; tense but not completely tense. The state of relaxation and tension depends on the situation and changes constantly. The quantity and quality are changing at all times.
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Re: ba ji

Postby Bob on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:22 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNxZTjJdyGE
2016徐紀Adam Hsu八極驚雷 Baji Thunder


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OqWUFOtIHc
Adam Hsu around 1980s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SQdbPnQfV4
Adam Hsu 八極拳 performance circa 1984 at Seattle
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Re: ba ji

Postby willie on Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:40 pm

C.J.W. wrote:In Taiwan, it's always easy to tell if someone is from Wutan's lineage. Everything they do -- from Mantis, Chen Taiji, Mizong, to Bagua -- has a "Baji feel" to it.


Interesting comment.
This stuff is kind-of similar to the way we train Chen.
great video.
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