the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

武藝會 - Martial Arts Club
October 11 at 9:51pm

Sanda vs Dacheng fist(thought boxing)
散打vs大成拳:
https://www.facebook.com/MarsoArt/video ... 003860140/

nothing new.

did not seem to understand or know how to control the distance, or space.

I wonder what the skill level was for each of them.

Those who practice Dachen, Thoughts?

Was it representative of the style movement, and strategy.

Can not se the vid, but I guess the sparring/fight is with "sanda rules". No "pure"CMA training can compete with Boxing,KickBoxing or MMA in a Boxing, KickBoxing or MMA ring or octagon. And therefore CMA is losing in faith as a credible self defense martial art too. I sure seem as CMA is losing ground here in China too.

I forgot. I guess the vid show the Yiquan guy losing the fight? If not then I'm positively surprised

Good on the Da Cheng guy for trying it out, but I wonder why these people never seem to try light-sparring with sanda guys first and just go straight to full force competition style fights? You can work out a strategy to utilize your knowledge with lower risks of serious injury. That kick to the face does not look fun.

He just walked around in his Yiquan stance. What did he wait for? For the opponent to slow down? Or for him to trip?

.Q. wrote: I wonder why these people never seem to try light-sparring with sanda guys first and just go straight to full force competition style fights? You can work out a strategy to utilize your knowledge with lower risks of serious injury.

Agree. Why not start with light contact and maybe slow sparring? That would seem to be the correct way to start, from the beginning and not to expect a good end result without practicing.

Trick wrote:Can not se the vid, but I guess the sparring/fight is with "sanda rules". No "pure"CMA training can compete with Boxing,KickBoxing or MMA in a Boxing, KickBoxing or MMA ring or octagon. And therefore CMA is losing in faith as a credible self defense martial art too. I sure seem as CMA is losing ground here in China too.

That has not been my experience. As younger man I used lama hop gar against many different types of styles.
Many in the Army boxed or used to box, always curious about how it worked, they found out directly.

A style many in the city used in their work

You might remember my saying that a lot of Mr. Long's students used his White Crane in the streets -- just as there were guys in our later school where were bouncers. But some of Mr. Long's students were street gang members, and a few of them had developed really interesting and unique ways of using

White Crane. As usual, I was pushed into sparring with pretty much anyone who walked through Mr. Long's door, and one of the most interesting of his "older" students was a gang member who had a very tricky way of using the Crane style.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26046&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=burning+plam&start=30


As for China, or CMA in gen, we seem to have some differences maybe I was just lucky.
All the people I know or knew either used their art, or could use it...nothing was left to theory.

In the clip shown, the members here who practice the style can comment as to what was either done or not or even if
this was a good representation of the style..

My take was distance, timing and understanding how to get hit.

The level of the players seemed mismatched, of course one never knows what was said by whom
before the encounter....

Bao wrote:He just walked around in his Yiquan stance. What did he wait for? For the opponent to slow down? Or for him to trip?

.Q. wrote: I wonder why these people never seem to try light-sparring with sanda guys first and just go straight to full force competition style fights? You can work out a strategy to utilize your knowledge with lower risks of serious injury.

Agree. Why not start with light contact and maybe slow sparring? That would seem to be the correct way to start, from the beginning and not to expect a good end result without practicing.

Yiquan is said to not practice forms, but many seem to go in to that elbows pointing out form(frame) no matter what when sparring(push hand)

windwalker wrote:

Trick wrote:Can not se the vid, but I guess the sparring/fight is with "sanda rules". No "pure"CMA training can compete with Boxing,KickBoxing or MMA in a Boxing, KickBoxing or MMA ring or octagon. And therefore CMA is losing in faith as a credible self defense martial art too. I sure seem as CMA is losing ground here in China too.

That has not been my experience. As younger man I used lama hop gar against many different types of styles.
Many in the Army boxed or used to box, always curious about how it worked, they found out directly.

A style many in the city used in their work

You might remember my saying that a lot of Mr. Long's students used his White Crane in the streets -- just as there were guys in our later school where were bouncers. But some of Mr. Long's students were street gang members, and a few of them had developed really interesting and unique ways of using

White Crane. As usual, I was pushed into sparring with pretty much anyone who walked through Mr. Long's door, and one of the most interesting of his "older" students was a gang member who had a very tricky way of using the Crane style.

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php? ... m&start=30


As for China, or CMA in gen, we seem to have some differences maybe I was just lucky.
All the people I know or knew either used their art, or could use it...nothing was left to theory.

In the clip shown, the members here who practice the style can comment as to what was either done or not or even if
this was a good representation of the style..

My take was distance, timing and understanding how to get hit.

The level of the players seemed mismatched, of course one never knows what was said by whom
before the encounter....

Yes you're right. I was referring to how much maybe most CMA arts here in China is practiced more than often seem to not fare well in the ring or octagon against a well trained (kick)boxer or MMAist. On the other hand the Tongbei people up in north that I have been involved with could fight very well even if put on gloves and went in to the ring.

As we all know the key here is, spar much-fight better. So TCMAists who spar more of course fight better

He had no business being there. it's wasn't just poor it was non existent.. Another mismatch. This is what gets me, it always seems to be the crappiest of guys doing this. Why?

The way I see it is that TCMA people that do spar that do crosstrain, that do embrace the combat sport paradigm, have nothing to prove in this context.
They already know the deal.

These sad martially useless chumps still have some deluded idea that their limited training practices will see them somehow infused with fighting prowess without ever going near any real and or meaningful fight training. You only have to look at that guy to know he's clueless and way out of his depth. It took less than a second for me to see it would not go well for him. He has no business facing off with someone who actually knows what they are doing.

It's symptomatic of the delusion some traditional guys still hold onto about their training and still hold on to this strange seperation and pitching (in their minds) of traditional vs. combat sport, They clearly feel they have something to prove - maybe to themselves more than anyone else at this point.

Most of the rest of the world has seen the light - hopefully.. But let's not hold our breath.

windwalker wrote:[
In the clip shown, the members here who practice the style can comment as to what was either done or not or even if
this was a good representation of the style..

My take was distance, timing and understanding how to get hit.

The level of the players seemed mismatched, of course one never knows what was said by whom
before the encounter....

If I remember right Wang Xiangzhai is supposed to have said something as combat science is constantly evolving, and I would believe that the established legit Dacheng/Yiquan schools in China(Beijing) staying true to that way. Long time students of those schools can most probably stand their ground. As most here probably know Dacheng/Yiquan was in "vogue" some time ago even in China, and with that most certainly some crap popped up too. I remember my Yiquan teacher in Beijing said that YQ will probably be as taijiquan all forms and no combat......maybe he saw that by looking at me

If I remember right Wang Xiangzhai is supposed to have said something as combat science is constantly evolving, and I would believe that the established legit Dacheng/Yiquan schools in China(Beijing) staying true to that way. Long time students of those schools can most probably stand their ground. As most here probably know Dacheng/Yiquan was in "vogue" some time ago even in China, and with that most certainly some crap popped up too. I remember my Yiquan teacher in Beijing said that YQ will probably be as taijiquan all forms and no combat in the future......maybe he saw that by looking at me

Yiquan is mind fist, Da cheng is great achievement, you will never use yiquan properly if you have not already achieved the highest level,( greatly ), in any fist, that is where your fight understanding comes from, and ultimately your ability to use yiquan method.

The sanda guy's level was really low.

Here's some proper kickboxing to clean your eyes