Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

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Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Gringorn on Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:11 am

Here is a recent clip from GM Sam F.S. Chin's last visit to the Norway ILC group.

"In this short video GM Sam Chin shows of some applications that arise whit the situation. Explaining the importance of the principles and how they make the situation occur as long as they are uphold."

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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:03 pm

Not to take anything away from Sam, but I'd really like to see him demonstrate his internal skills against someone throwing punches and kicks as opposed in "spinning hand" format.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Bao on Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:44 am

C.J.W. wrote:Not to take anything away from Sam, but I'd really like to see him demonstrate his internal skills against someone throwing punches and kicks as opposed in "spinning hand" format.


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:29 am

Absolutely. This is not showing applications any more than someone demonstrating techniques in tuishou is. So, it would be nice to see the lecture leading up to this. It would also be nice to see some bigger guys mixing it up with him. I don't doubt he has the goods, but I have only seen I-liq-chuan applied in this very fixed format. The other practitioners I have seen doing san da either looked horrible or looked like kickboxers (because that's what they were before).

Is there footage of GM SC during his time as a full contact champ? That would be interesting.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby cloudz on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:50 am

C.J.W. wrote:Not to take anything away from Sam, but I'd really like to see him demonstrate his internal skills against someone throwing punches and kicks as opposed in "spinning hand" format.



There are videos like that around, usually involving his Russian people. They're not really hitting him of course, but you could say they are trying to in a fashion. But yes I beleive they are "demonstrated" for your viewing pleasure. Hand strikes thrown anyway, keep looking.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby cloudz on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:51 am

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:This is not showing applications any more than someone demonstrating techniques in tuishou is.


really?
seems a needlessly narrow definition of "applications"
Last edited by cloudz on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:20 am

cloudz wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:This is not showing applications any more than someone demonstrating techniques in tuishou is.


really?
seems a needlessly narrow definition of "applications"


No, I'm not saying they are not applications, but that it would be nice to see what I would call something like "applied techniques." I just never see any of this school's stuff applied from any other distance or position which leaves me wondering. I have nothing against it, just like I have nothing against applications during push hands, which is what I see this as. Hence, I thought some preamble would have made the video more interesting.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby marvin8 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:25 am

C.J.W. wrote:Not to take anything away from Sam, but I'd really like to see him demonstrate his internal skills against someone throwing punches and kicks as opposed in "spinning hand" format.

Well, here are some I Liq Chuan practitioners sparring/fighting.

Polar Fox Kung Fu and Tai Chi
Published on Mar 22, 2016

A real fight, not a demo, on kyokushin rules - no head-punches, no grappling. The [some copyrighted wushu style] guy is me.

I tried my best for it to be "Kyokushin vs [some copyrighted wushu style]" sparring, not "Kyokushin in karate gi vs Kyokushin in [some copyrighted wushu style] T-shirt"; it's up to you to decide whether I succeeded in it. The restriction of rules influences the pattern of interaction too much.

Respect and thanks to Michael, the Kyokushinkai guy, for allowing me to upload this video to Youtube.

UPD. After uploading this video I was banned from I Liq Chuan school for using "I Liq Chuan" in the title, and I had to remove it. That's why the title looks so moronish.

OK, it's their right, and I respect it. There is an official Federation, that I am apart from, and it has the rights for the ILiqChuan trademark. The only think I regret about is that my Teacher denied me - but, OK, such things do happen and there is noone's guilt in it. The life goes on, OK. Like, share, subscribe... What can I say else... And soon you'll see "combat taichi vs boxing" and "combat taichi vs bjj" videos.

Stay safe and in good health!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYDsgT9qlKo

From comments section:
Polar Fox Kung Fu and Tai Chi 1 year ago wrote:
I might use spinning hands of course, but without grabbing (open palm only), and it was a little bit difficult to perform it accurately and spectacularly - Michael is a strong guy 15 kilos (33 pounds) heavier than me, and his punching technique is very good.

ashe higgs 2 months ago wrote:
I Liq Chuan is an open door school. It would be better to call this video "Dmitry Likhachev vs. Kyokushin fighter". As a school, I Liq Chuan is not "vs" anybody and very welcoming to all styles and people. At any rate, you can only represent yourself, at your own level of skill, compared to one who has earned the right to represent the style itself. Only GM Sam Chin can do that at present.


ILIQ CHUAN
Published on Apr 9, 2016
Push Hands competition Moving step, http://www.iliqchuan.com http://www.iliqchuan.ru
Moscow Wushu Stars 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pDzE3ZMya0

ILIQ CHUAN
Published on Apr 9, 2016

Push Hands competition Moving step, http://www.iliqchuan.com http://www.iliqchuan.ru
Moscow Wushu Stars 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzv0XOEaNi0

ashe higgs
Published on Jul 21, 2009

this is how not to apply sticky hands. too defensive.

About Ashe

Ashe currently trains and teaches the Chinese martial art of I-Liq Chuan as well as martial arts based fitness in the Phoenix and Tempe region of Arizona. If you'd like to get in touch with him go to http://www.fallingleaveskungfu.com:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNDlgdh9LnA

ILIQ CHUAN
Published on Feb 17, 2009

The Moscow Championship in Wushu-Sanda, February 2009, organized by the Federation of K.Rabadanov (Wushu Federation of Russia). Weight - up to 60 kg. Semifinal. In red - Daria Sergeeva, a fighter in the style of Iliquan, an instructor. Trains Alexander Skalozub:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTiVI9qzSaA

ILIQ CHUAN
Published on Feb 17, 2009

Ч The Moscow Championship in Wushu-Sanda, February 2009, organized by the Federation of K.Rabadanov (Wushu Federation of Russia). Weight - up to 60 kg. The final. In red - Daria Sergeeva, a fighter in the style of Iliquan, an instructor. Trains Alexander Skalozub:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KZISfrX-b0
Last edited by marvin8 on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Interloper on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:17 pm

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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Bao on Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:45 pm

Interloper wrote:


Again from a spinning hands setting. Boring.

marvin8 wrote:
C.J.W. wrote:Not to take anything away from Sam, but I'd really like to see him demonstrate his internal skills against someone throwing punches and kicks as opposed in "spinning hand" format.

Well, here are some I Liq Chuan practitioners sparring/fighting.


Not Sam. Boring.

;D
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby cloudz on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:22 am

I quite clearly recall a video in which Sam was wearing a reddish suit where a student or students were throwing strikes towards him and he was demonstrating. After a bit of looking I just can't seem to find it atm.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Gringorn on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:13 am

I would also like to see ILC videos with a bit more action. Hopefully we will be able to make some.

As to "applied techniques" as Ian wrote above, that is kind of a "problem". ILC don't really have any techniques.

Here are two clips I found that shows "application" from other than spinning hands:



Here, there is several examples from spinning hands, but also some examples from outside bridge range.

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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:12 pm

Apart from the Russian girl in every case it is a reluctant attacker backing off
It also looks like none of the others attackers attack the head where Sam and the other instructors do
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby Interloper on Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:33 pm

Bao wrote:Again from a spinning hands setting. Boring.

;D


I can appreciate that. :) It's not boring to me, though. There's a lot going on, not in overt view.

I think that maybe you are not recognizing that although the "spinning hands" is a training vehicle and medium, when Sam Chin uses it with full internal power and expression of 6-directional ("spherical") force, the structure and core force he is expressing through his arms has a very powerful deflective and penetrating power at the point of contact.

In Japanese internal aikijujutsu, the same force is used for deflections of an opponent's force in attacking. (The guy throwing punches, starting at around 1:00, is a bodyguard, exec protection professional. If it looks like he is "holding back," he's not... his punches are hitting a brick wall of 6-directional force and his shoulder and upper back are taking a crapload of force back from his own punches).


Same body principles as Sifu Sam Chin is using. That is what's relevant, more than the attacks. When you have this kind of body method, the attacks become academic. The persons you are seeing in the other videos (in the ring) are at their various stages of internal development. Watch their teachers to see where they will take their internals. Watch them in the ring five years after those videos were made. Ten years... Constant refinement.
Last edited by Interloper on Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sam F.S. Chin showing applications

Postby windwalker on Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:02 pm

Interloper wrote:In Japanese internal aikijujutsu, the same force is used for deflections of an opponent's force in attacking. (The guy throwing punches, starting at around 1:00, is a bodyguard, exec protection professional. If it looks like he is "holding back," he's not... his punches are hitting a brick wall of 6-directional force and his shoulder and upper back are taking a crapload of force back from his own punches).
.


maybe we'er looking at a different clips. Obviously he's throwing his punches with the timing and over extension so that he can feel whats going on.
At no point is he really trying to hit the teacher, If he is maybe he might consider another job field.

The point that some may be trying to make which I would concur is that what is shown never seems to work once its removed from the context in which its demoed in...none of it. Thinking that ones timing will be good enough to interact with a boxer for example wold be a mistake. With out footwork, controlling the distances, and angles one becomes a target. If the other is the same size ie a heavy weight and can move its not a good ending.

Saying this I do respect the teachers understand the demos and what some may feel they are developing.
I do not agree with the conclusions understanding that "demos" are set up to show certain aspects with in a given
context...they'er demos....which how I view them...

When you have this kind of body method, the attacks become academic.


yep, until they'er not

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-KX99T5r3A

bad way to find out.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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