solo aikido exercises -william gleason

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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby Trick on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:03 pm

Does the Shiko of Sumo have the same intention/purpose as the Shiko of Daito-ryu?........More simple Wikipedia research. Takeda probably was also trained in the Jikishinkage-ryu, one of the predecessors schools of that style was Kage-ryu whose founder was a pirate and occasionally practiced that profession along the Chinese coast and probably also stayed some time in China. Could that pirate have picked up some "Chinese excercises" that eventually transferred into the Jikishinkage school?
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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby Trick on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:37 pm

Finny wrote:The founder of Aikido was known to have altered both the physical manifestation of the techniques he was taught, as well as not necessarily teaching 'aiki' to his students.. as his teacher had taught him to, and done himself ('teach only one or two the real goods..'). Where DR teaches to use the internal connections/spirals to collapse opponents in a crumpled heap at the practitioner's feet, Aikido redirects those forces and allows the recipient to be 'thrown away' from the Aikido person:

So the Aiki in DR is a principle trained in solo exercises such as Shiko and possibly also in partner excercises, and the Aiki of Aikido is only trained in partner exercises? The very basic "Aikido" technique also found in many other MA is the Nikyu which if applied right allows the "opponent" to crumple before one's feets. With all the basic techniques of Aikido one can chose to crumple down the "opponent" or apply them more as throw away? Well the Nikyu seem more as just a crumple down technique
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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby Finny on Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:49 pm

Trick wrote:Does the Shiko of Sumo have the same intention/purpose as the Shiko of Daito-ryu?........


again, I'm no DR guy (and there are folks here who were/are) - the impression I get is, no. Similar but different. I've heard the DR version is far more involved internally.

Trick wrote:More simple Wikipedia research. Takeda probably was also trained in the Jikishinkage-ryu, one of the predecessors schools of that style was Kage-ryu whose founder was a pirate and occasionally practiced that profession along the Chinese coast and probably also stayed some time in China. Could that pirate have picked up some "Chinese excercises" that eventually transferred into the Jikishinkage school?


Yep, Takeda was trained in Jikishinkage ryu - one of the 'other' styles I mentioned as having somewhat different conditioning methods.. the most famous of which:

Image

Just fwiw - tracing anything Chinese back to Kage ryu through Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage ryu is... questionable, from what I understand. They, together with Kashima Shinryu have histories that don't jive with the other 'Shin/kage' lines, and seem to have been influenced more by the 'Kashima' aspect of their past than the 'Kage'.. but again, this is just me repeating what I've heard. And again, Mr Amdur's book covers this stuff and a lot more.

Trick wrote:So the Aiki in DR is a principle trained in solo exercises such as Shiko and possibly also in partner excercises, and the Aiki of Aikido is only trained in partner exercises? The very basic "Aikido" technique also found in many other MA is the Nikyu which if applied right allows the "opponent" to crumple before one's feets. With all the basic techniques of Aikido one can chose to crumple down the "opponent" or apply them more as throw away? Well the Nikyu seem more as just a crumple down technique


What you hear from the more 'aiki' oriented lines of DR is that 'it' is essentially the same quality developed in CIMA by neigong/jibengong/tui/roushou. And they universally insist that aikido has 'no' aiki.. the physical manipulation of another person into aikido shaped movement does not necessarily indicate the presence of the internal ability - in much the same way as many videos of Taiji guys doing taolu doesn't necessarily indicate any internal ability.
Last edited by Finny on Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby Trick on Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:14 am

Finny thanks for the info, and I will try to get my hand on " Hidden in plain sight" by Mr,Amdur. Find the history of Japanese martial arts traditions very interesting.
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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby Finny on Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:47 am

No worries - I'm an MA history geek.. Hidden in Plain Sight does a wonderful job of examining DR/Aikido and the history behind them. But all of Mr Amdur's other books are fantastic also - Old School is great, and even The Girl with the Face of the Moon.. which is fiction.
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Re: solo aikido exercises -william gleason

Postby HotSoup on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:13 pm

Finny, thanks a lot for the book reference, it sounds like a good overview of things that I've always been curious about when it comes to Aikido/Dayto Ruy's history!
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