the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Interloper wrote:Bao, breath is just part of the equation. What is relevant is the mental training and conditioning that permits someone to maintain focus under duress. That is what the warrior classes have trained for, for centuries.

My point about driving is that the human mind is capable of conditioning multiple layers of simultaneous activities, both mental and physical. That said, a person who is demonstrating a concept of internal structure and movement, should be able to do so while speaking. That was the original discussion. Fighting while maintaining that focus, is another level of the same developmental process, just with more layers of issues you must deal with, including breathing.

I completely 100% don't agree. It's not about maintaining focus, rather about knowing on what to focus or multi-tasking. Multitasking is not the same as focus under duress. You can focus and still screw up your breath. Some people use lower deep breathing when they speak, but when you stand for a crowd and want to make yourself heard, people tend to make an effort with the lungs, tense the breath and use the chest area. This will affect the balance. So it's not a question about focus, it's about physical shiftings in your body affected by how you use your breath. When you fight, the breath and control breath will be the most important, not speaking and make yourself heard. That will be a completely different issue and a too different situation to be comparable.

Now I don't make any excuses for showing bad balance. I don't know anything about his balance because I can not be there and test him. But I know that anyone can have a bad day and that it's hard to control every small shifting that happens in the body and how those shiftings affect your body.

... And I sincerely doubt that this person has a mental training that is anything compared to warriors of the old days ...

Interloper wrote:No real cross-body connection in what Gleason is doing, and he is "double-weighting" (committing his body mass to one side of the body). That's why he wobbles.

I don't study Aikido (and maybe you don't do Taiji), but this definition of "double-weighting" is exactly opposite of Taiji's. Can these arts be that different? In Taiji, it is desirable to commit your weight to one side.

Ron Panunto wrote:

Interloper wrote:No real cross-body connection in what Gleason is doing, and he is "double-weighting" (committing his body mass to one side of the body). That's why he wobbles.

I don't study Aikido (and maybe you don't do Taiji), but this definition of "double-weighting" is exactly opposite of Taiji's. Can these arts be that different? In Taiji, it is desirable to commit your weight to one side.

That's always a good discussion, right?

Double weighting is described like putting one foot on each side of a wheel with equal pressure, it won't roll.

Some folks see it in same side hand and foot being substantial, or both feet, or both hands. I see it where you have to change before you can change.

Double weighting is much more subtle than that it is not only in the feet it can be many places
The feet can appear to be double weighted but not be
Wu style single whip or fan thru the back are examples of double heavy

"Double weighting" means different things in different arts.
In the arts I study, it means having a "dead side" that is not just "empty," but also devoid of connection or engagement, and also to have your body mass committed to only the "live" side of the body. This condition seriously compromises a person's structure (the body is not unified) and ability to both maintain the structure and to completely produce and fully use force on both sides (Yin and Yang). It's easy to take that person's center of mass and balance, on contact.

Interloper wrote:"Double weighting" means different things in different arts.
In the arts I study, it means having a "dead side" that is not just "empty," but also devoid of connection or engagement, and also to have your body mass committed to only the "live" side of the body. This condition seriously compromises a person's structure (the body is not unified) and ability to both maintain the structure and to completely produce and fully use force on both sides (Yin and Yang). It's easy to take that person's center of mass and balance, on contact.

Isn't Shiko a cure for "double weighting"?

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How can you determine what anyone's degree of experience and skill is? You have never even met me, much less trained with me. I have been training in internals for nearly 20 years. Yes, I'm "still" a student and will be for life, and don't claim to be anything of an apex of the craft; however, I do not speak about things that I can't actually demonstrate with a reasonable degree of skill, or that I can't explain and instruct in, myself.

And, since when is any popular teacher's work sacrosanct and beyond critique? Can you observe and make experienced evaluations of what you are seeing? There is no attack here on individuals, only an objective observation, based on experience. When people put their videos "out there," it is valid to evaluate them objectively.

My comments in no way were pejorative, which is much more than I can say for some of the comments others are making here. Stick to fact. If you can't explain and describe what you are seeing, that's fine, but don't make the presumption that others do not understand what they are viewing.

Tom wrote:

littlepanda wrote:Isn't Shiko a cure for "double weighting"?

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Should be.

But I think what will be more interesting than Cady's (Interloper's) attempts to critique Gleason from her position of limited experience and skill will be a note/comment from Daito Ryu Kodokai teacher Roy Goldberg on his recent meeting and co-teaching with I Liq Chuan's Sam Chin (Sam's teaching informs Cady's practice). If/when Goldberg's remarks are posted in another venue, I'll link them to this discussion (if I remember).

Interloper wrote:How can you determine what anyone's degree of experience and skill is? You have never even met me, much less trained with me. I have been training in internals for nearly 20 years. Yes, I'm "still" a student and will be for life, and don't claim to be anything of an apex of the craft; however, I do not speak about things that I can't actually demonstrate with a reasonable degree of skill, or that I can't explain and instruct in, myself.

And, since when is any popular teacher's work sacrosanct and beyond critique? Can you observe and make experienced evaluations of what you are seeing? There is no attack here on individuals, only an objective observation, based on experience. When people put their videos "out there," it is valid to evaluate them objectively.

My comments in no way were pejorative, which is much more than I can say for some of the comments others are making here. Stick to fact. If you can't explain and describe what you are seeing, that's fine, but don't make the presumption that others do not understand what they are viewing.

Tom wrote:

littlepanda wrote:Isn't Shiko a cure for "double weighting"?

.

Should be.

But I think what will be more interesting than Cady's (Interloper's) attempts to critique Gleason from her position of limited experience and skill will be a note/comment from Daito Ryu Kodokai teacher Roy Goldberg on his recent meeting and co-teaching with I Liq Chuan's Sam Chin (Sam's teaching informs Cady's practice). If/when Goldberg's remarks are posted in another venue, I'll link them to this discussion (if I remember).

We're artists and we're sensitive about our shit.

I watched the video again and I don't think the guy's a fraud or anything, he's just a smidge more wobbly on one leg than I would like to be. But I'm not doing that particular exercise on mats in front of a group while describing it. I'm also not charging people for that privilege so....

Did everybody leave happy? Do we Taijiquan players get to snark about wobbly akido-ka in their funny dresses?

All is well and all will be well

Tom wrote:
Bill Gleason does wobble in that demonstration of shiko. So on occasion does the guy who taught him that exercise.

I just tried doing shiko. I found that I can have better balance if I were to twist my hands in the opposite direction while doing this exercise.

for e.g. If you were to lift your right leg then turn your right palm up and your left palm down. This twist will defintely make you more stable.

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So who was the guy that taught him

is it matter if exercise basics are good explained?

Wobbling is ok since the purpose of shiko is not to stand straight on one foot. But I don't like he talks too much. This lady explains one aspect of shiko very well and probably better than Gleason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGa5C1Qs8jA

If one says 'shiko is for xxx', he knows and gets only XXX from shiko. He doesn't know what will come next XXX. Especially Gleason's version of shiko doesn't go low much. IMHO, it's very very important to go low at first stage. Cross body, 3 axis or blah blah don't matter. Go down and spray WD40 to your stiff middle and low area. That's to get the sinking qi or heavy arms.

Is there a good example of these Shinzo exercises on YouTube

wayne hansen wrote:Is there a good example of these Shinzo exercises on YouTube

Do you mean Shiko? Or do you mean "heart exercises?"

wayne hansen wrote:Is there a good example of these Shinzo exercises on YouTube

I can't see the vid posted here unless they are Chinese Tubes. So I just ask, this Shiko is it the way the Sumo guys are doing or the "knee walking" done in Aikido? The knee walking I can see could be a good exercise for the lower abdomen and hips.