the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

2 of my students practising the Yang 2 Person Sanshou Set - does anyone else still do this?

In the mid 1990's I learned a version of this from Sam Masich. I don't see a lot of value in the practice of it. In my opinion, there are so many more important things to work on that provide greater bang for the buck of training time.

I still practice it on a daily basis it is an integral part of the system
We practice it as two solo sets
I very really teach the whole form conjoined
Most people do it as a dance without feeling or practicality
That is why most people give it up feeling it is of little use
I mainly do it in groups of three moves as in the form and with application outside the form
My teacher won't teach it as a two man set only as a fighting set
The footwork differs in the fighting set to the dual set
I learnt to put it together fron a 5 foot 4 woman who mainly did it with a 6 foot 4 man
The lack of feeling and the disbalances in her form were evident
Don't sell this method of training short just look for better teachers
I also know San shou forms for all the weapons
The one for the pole is particularly important for power generation
Much better than spear shaking

For the way that I teach, I find it to be much more useful than a solo form. However, I want students to be feeling, responding to, and controlling their partner, rather than doing a more “formal” (or “cooperative”) choreography as is shown in the video.

I want them to learn both sides and in both the regular manner and in mirror image so that they can jump from A to B, right style to left style, forward or backward in the form sequence...
With the ability to jump around in the form, they cannot rely on anticipating what move will come next, and they should be trying to control their partner in order to make moves more effective while making it difficult for their partner to respond. This includes making the partner lose their balance, locking them, penetrating their defenses for landing strikes, etc.

I learned two different versions of this form, one more structured (formal/cooperative) and the other version more free, more testing. I find that I can have them learn, feel and practice numerous principles using this approach to practicing the sanshou partner form.

I enjoy practising it.
I find it a good way to practice working 'triggers and responses' up to an intuitive level.
It's good to do solo and in groups of techniques.
With practice it can be varied quite considerably in pace and technique.
It's popular with a lot of my senior students who are also high level instructors in other arts.

I used to practice it many years ago when I trained with Al.....

Yes, it is part of the Xiong system as well.
We do it as solo forms first, then with partners.
Not many do the last step to segment it again and use martial intent!

wayne hansen wrote:My teacher won't teach it as a two man set only as a fighting set

Wayne, I don't understand the difference between a "two man set" and a "fighting set." By definition, any two man set is simulated fighting, and it is up to the players to determine the level of intensity. Why would anyone take the time to learn your two man set if it did not transfer to actual fighting?

taken as a whole, it seems like b.s. in the way that 1 person form seems like b.s., but isolated moves taken out of context in actual application under real resistance seem useful. for example at 0:21 she does a hand crossing thing that is also in the 1 person form that in actual use under resistance is useful imho. the rest could be good non-resistant practice in stick, adhere, follow, etc., i suppose, but I agree with charles. too much other good stuff to do with extremely limited time that we all have here.

Sorry Ron if I was unclear
It is what everything is saying
He teaches the form,realistic application for every move and their variations
HoW one moves folds to the next if it is defeated
He thinks as a two man form many people are more interested in keeping the flow going than giving each move intergraty
When you do the two man forms as solo forms many people use the same stepping as the two man set
In our school it differs because in the two man set you are being defeated half the time
In the solo sets you are taking each move to its logical conclusion

https://youtu.be/6Fmrz6p8qcs

This is a clip that came up yesterday I only watched the first bit

Have a friend who teach the Earle Montague(spelling?) system, as two person practice he only do the "sanshou set"(I actually don't know why call a "set" for sanshou). I agree with some previous poster in that there are other more valid things to work on (if one strive for sanshou). I feel the "sanshou set" use too much the formalized form in its "sanshou". I believe the usually to free Tuishou and DaLui is enough as stepping stones toward free sparring.

Tui shou and Ta lu are basic free form repetitive exercises
The first working on ward off,roll back,press and push
The latter working on split,pull down ,elbow and shoulder
The San shou is a catalogue of 88 seperate applications
It's hard to tell people who have not trained them with someone who understands their value what they are missing by not doing them
I think they are an essential part of the system otherwise they would not be there
Saying that you can do sparring with no preparation learning as you go

These guys appear to have a good training pace.

taichi-kungfu.cz
Published on Oct 13, 2016

Yang (Yeung) Tai Chi Chuan regular training session. (Kung-fu school in Brno, Czech republic.)
Ukázka sestavy s partnerem Yang Tai Chi Chuan (Tai Ji Quan). Trénink v kung-fu škole Brno, ČR.
http://www.taijiquan.cz


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCHw4Z2tg_Y

The main problem here is the lack of folding and moving in
They are a little hard in the arms
For a form of light sparing it is OK
It would be interesting to know their lineage and what other arts they practice
From their site they seem to be predominantly a Hung Gar school and it shows here