Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

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Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby marvin8 on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:58 am

Wing Chun Praha
Published on Apr 24, 2017

First part of seminar with John M Kaufman about internal conditions, relaxation, opening...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB533Q_NCAI

Wing Chun Praha
Published on Apr 25, 2017

Second part of seminar with John M Kaufman about internal conditions, focus, peng, tai gong connecting, using center of mass...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS1fN-_IlKk
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby Bao on Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:31 pm

Yes I've watched it, this and every Kaufman vid available. He is excellent. Though I doubt that many will be to put what he teaches into practical practice.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby windwalker on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:55 pm

Watching it, my own feeling was that he may understand what he feels he's doing but has not really explained it in a way
that makes sense.

Having said this, it remains to be seen if he can actually put to use what he demos outside of a demo setting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QSG-x3U5gU

He talks about center,,,and everything being free to move.

Is it? free to move.
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby marvin8 on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:10 pm

windwalker wrote:Watching it, my own feeling was that he may understand what he feels he's doing but has not really explained it in a way
that makes sense.

Having said this, it remains to be seen if he can actually put to use what he demos outside of a demo setting.

He talks about center,,,and everything being free to move.

Is it? free to move.

Yes, it kind of falls under the, TCMA techniques in the modern era post. Everything being free to move works great under demonstration rules. When pressured in chi sau rules, it is hard to find. What about in fighting?

I enjoy listening to these kind of topics. But, waiting for someone to posses the skills to apply it in a fight. . . .
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby Bao on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:10 am

windwalker wrote:Watching it, my own feeling was that he may understand what he feels he's doing but has not really explained it in a way
that makes sense.


I actually think that he explains it well. Though he only explain the result, the body, how it should be. But he doesn't explain how to get there in a practical sense.

Having said this, it remains to be seen if he can actually put to use what he demos outside of a demo setting.


Well... if you want to know... then challenge him! ;D
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby Bao on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:13 am

marvin8 wrote:Yes, it kind of falls under the, TCMA techniques in the modern era post.


I don't think he ever speaks about what he does as a certain technique or even mention the word technique. What he demonstrate is a certain body method, not "how to do", but "how to be".
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby windwalker on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:31 am

Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:Watching it, my own feeling was that he may understand what he feels he's doing but has not really explained it in a way
that makes sense.


I actually think that he explains it well. Though he only explain the result, the body, how it should be. But he doesn't explain how to get there in a practical sense.

Ok you feel he does, I would say some of his ideas concerning physics is off

Having said this, it remains to be seen if he can actually put to use what he demos outside of a demo setting.


Well... if you want to know... then challenge him! ;D


No need, hes shown in the clip that he can not do what he talks about in a free from context.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby marvin8 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:13 am

Bao wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Yes, it kind of falls under the, TCMA techniques in the modern era post.


I don't think he ever speaks about what he does as a certain technique or even mention the word technique. What he demonstrate is a certain body method, not "how to do", but "how to be".

Well, it is a higher level skill he is explaining. Being "free to move everything." However, he could not accomplish that outside of the demonstration rules.
windwalker wrote:
Bao wrote:
windwalker wrote:Watching it, my own feeling was that he may understand what he feels he's doing but has not really explained it in a way
that makes sense.


I actually think that he explains it well. Though he only explain the result, the body, how it should be. But he doesn't explain how to get there in a practical sense.

Ok you feel he does, I would say some of his ideas concerning physics is off

Having said this, it remains to be seen if he can actually put to use what he demos outside of a demo setting.


Well... if you want to know... then challenge him! ;D


No need, hes shown in the clip that he can not do what he talks about in a free from context.
Exactly, we seen enough. :)

No. To give him the benefit of the doubt, the chi sau was dated earlier, Aug 24, 2012 and the Free to Move Seminar was in 2017, which is 5 years later. Who knows if he has gained the ability to "everything move free" in chi sau by now.

It is like with other things. For me, there is no reason or motivation to travel to see him, until he shows the ability to use the theory at least in non-compliant chi sau, outside of the demonstration rules.
Last edited by marvin8 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby willie on Sun Dec 03, 2017 4:42 am

Bao wrote:Yes I've watched it, this and every Kaufman vid available. He is excellent. Though I doubt that many will be to put what he teaches into practical practice.
There is not enough lower body integration. While he certainly looks like he has good sticking ability and has a very practical easy to learn style, excellence in Tai Chi is a word that is reserved. As I had stated before the learning curve of chen-style is much greater but later it is much much more powerful. But it definitely does look like he would be not only fun but an interesting training partner
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby Bao on Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:46 am

marvin8 wrote:It is like with other things. For me, there is no reason or motivation to travel to see him, until he shows the ability to use the theory at least in non-compliant chi sau, outside of the demonstration rules.


Some of the best boxing coaches never competed and wouldn’t stand a chance in the ring. I know nothing about Kaufman’s fighting abilities, but he might very well be able to teach you something that you could use.

willie wrote:There is not enough lower body integration.


From a Tai chi perspective I would agree.

But it definitely does look like he would be not only fun but an interesting training partner


Well said. 8-)
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby marvin8 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:36 am

Bao wrote:
marvin8 wrote:It is like with other things. For me, there is no reason or motivation to travel to see him, until he shows the ability to use the theory at least in non-compliant chi sau, outside of the demonstration rules.


Some of the best boxing coaches never competed and wouldn’t stand a chance in the ring. I know nothing about Kaufman’s fighting abilities, but he might very well be able to teach you something that you could use.

However, they might have students that show boxing skills, against worthy opponents. Or, they might demonstrate techniques that do not require an opponent to freeze and stand in place.

Some skills may work in a demonstration, but not work when a moving resistant/relaxed opponent is added to the equation. Other CST students have demonstrated the same concept and skills. Out of all the students not one has shown the skills in sparring or even a resistant chi sau session. The skill may not be important in a fight. May be it is good for something else. There is not enough evidence for me to have an opinion. I will just wait until someone displays the skills in a more realistic/useful situation.
Last edited by marvin8 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby Bao on Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:46 am

marvin8 wrote:Or, they might demonstrate techniques that do not require an opponent to freeze and stand in place.


Why do you believe that they must do so? ???

Some skills may work in a demonstration, but not work when a moving resistant/relaxed opponent is added to the equation.


If you don't want to practice these things, how do you know they won't when " a moving resistant/relaxed opponent is added to the equation"? ???

How can you be so sure? :P
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby marvin8 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:23 pm

Bao wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Or, they might demonstrate techniques that do not require an opponent to freeze and stand in place.


Why do you believe that they must do so? ???

There is no motivation for me to attend a seminar, if the master only shows moves where the opponent freezes and stands in place. In most if not all fights, the opponent moves.

Some skills may work in a demonstration, but not work when a moving resistant/relaxed opponent is added to the equation.


Bao wrote:If you don't want to practice these things, how do you know they won't when " a moving resistant/relaxed opponent is added to the equation"? ???

How can you be so sure? :P

I am not interested in practicing moves that a master demonstrates only against an opponent that freezes and stands in place and him or none of his students have shown the ability to use it outside of demonstration rules.

It is more motivating for me if the master chooses to demonstrate with a moving, resistant/relaxed opponent.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby C.J.W. on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:59 pm

IMO, most of the stuff he talks about is IMA 101 -- relaxation, sinking down, using the center/dantian, etc. But like Windwalker said, I also feel that he is not very good at verbalizing and explaining what he is doing.

My general impression of people from Chu Song-Ting's school is that they do have an understanding of IMA body mechanics and how to generate power in cooperative "structure tests." With that being said, I have yet to see anything they do that involves applying those IMA skills in sparring or fighting.
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Re: Internal Seminar: All must be free to move — John Kaufman

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:18 pm

After watching this I think I have some problems with it.

I don't believe internal skills are something you can "learn" so much as a state you achieve.

Like a circus strongman can bend a steel bar, there's no trick to it, he just made himself strong enough to do it. Anyone who hasn't gone through the necessary conditioning won't be able to duplicate the feat. At best they can use leverage and maybe another object to approximate the effect, but it isn't the real thing.

He sort of says this when he talks about "no how to" instead of "know how to", but then spends all his time intellectualizing how to.

I liked his interview with the martial man, but this one, I don't think is the best representation.
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