systema voodoo

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Re: systema voodoo

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:43 pm

Dmitri wrote:
I-mon wrote:teacher being allowed to punch or attack the student unpredictably at any moment ...

...and at any speed, usually significantly faster than the current pace of movements


Exactly. Everything for the show. 8-)
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Re: systema voodoo

Postby cloudz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:41 am

Life is a stage, after all. And what is left to do but play on.
Last edited by cloudz on Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: systema voodoo

Postby dspyrido on Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:46 pm

RobP3 wrote:
dspyrido wrote:
RobP3 wrote:Personally I find there's not much to be gained from discussing this kind of work, it really is a personal experience thing, then you can make your own conclusions


I am not about to get on a plane and go around the world in order to experience it. Straight out this looks exactly like all the other no touch stuff which to date has had a poor record of success on me.

Are you saying you've felt it and would fall over just because mikhail grinned inanely at you?

Or even this at 56s in where mr deadly blade master starts to gag with his hand in the air?



You don't have to, he travels all over the place. I know what it might look like and yes I've been to many of the "no touch" people too.
Yes I've felt various things with Mikhail and no I haven't fallen over just because etc etc

Like I said, it's an experience thing, just part of what he does and how he works.



So you're of the opinion the no touch he shows in these videos is the real deal?

As for seminars - you seem too be in the loop. When is he coming to australia?
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Re: systema voodoo

Postby RobP3 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:45 am

The real deal for what? Voodoo? Magic powers or mysterious energy? No. That's why the thread title raises a smile with systema people. Because MR and co stress over and over again that this kind of work is physical /psychological and not "magic".

These guys are military personnel, not martial arts guys. They work from a slightly different perspective. Both VV and MR and others have a deep understanding of human physiology and psychology. MR especially is able to connect on a deep level with people, to tweak their physical and psychological tension. There can be a few reasons for doing this, but it is primarily intended to be educational for the person undergoing the experience. On a more basic level, this is one reason we hit each other, to learn from the experience. Everyone has their own reaction, that's why I said it is a personal thing, the experience is your own.

Regarding the previous points, big workshops are ok but you get the full benefit of working with these guys in their classes or smaller groups. Then you will see how it is very much a two way street it is as far as contact levels and speed goes. Usually in a playful way, unless it has to be otherwise.

I think they have already been to Australia, don't know when they are going again. Found this clip below of MR's son working to relax people, presumably from the local organisers

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Re: systema voodoo

Postby LDShouler on Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:44 am

Just to say, I really like your stuff Rob and find it an inspiration for work that I do with my classes...but I find it hard to understand the relevance of this type of activity to self-defence; it could lead to all sorts of delusions in the mind of those experiencing it if not explained correctly, and to be honest (I learned hypnotism whilst at uni) it seems more in the domain of Derren Brown.
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Re: systema voodoo

Postby RobP3 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:13 am

LDShouler wrote:Just to say, I really like your stuff Rob and find it an inspiration for work that I do with my classes...but I find it hard to understand the relevance of this type of activity to self-defence; it could lead to all sorts of delusions in the mind of those experiencing it if not explained correctly, and to be honest (I learned hypnotism whilst at uni) it seems more in the domain of Derren Brown.


Thanks glad you are finding the material useful!

I'll try and explain from my perspective. Derren Brown - yes, in a way. Actually there was a guy training with me who studied DB et al in depth, he actually makes a living in that field now. He told me he once used an exact DB method to talk his way out of a potential bust up. Just this summer I was teaching in Italy. One day we did a session on body language which I topped off by doing some "mind reading", guessing correctly 4 random numbers that a person thought of. I had 60 people convinced I had some "magic power" until I showed them how it was done (a simple trick). The interesting thing was how many said they were disappointed that it was just a trick.

Anyway, if we put that work under the heading of "psychological" then it is a big part of our training. I'll try and be brief, but, to me the System is the study of all our systems - nervous, muscle, skeletal, etc etc including our emotional/psych system. This is the important one as you can have the coolest moves in the world but if, under pressure, your "bottle goes" you freeze or fold.
So a lot of our work is on the psyche. We ran a workshop last week on conflict management (see video thread) and over half the session was spent on fear control, managing emotional response and so on. We work this in some depth, though I only ever put part of it up on YT.

To bring it back round, then, many drills are on this kind of work, often using the physical to access the emotional. Perhaps this stems from the background of the teachers, like I said before this is "operational" rather than "traditional". It has many uses, there's people using the breathwork with PTSD veterans, for example, or others taking some of the principles for their own training.

How the work is explained and presented in training is, of course, very important and this is something often missing from video clips. In fact, one of my own clips was put up for ridicule a while back and the guy cropped the explanation from the beginning, so you can't win sometimes. If everyone is aware of the drill parameters and purpose there should be no problems. And I go back to my first post about this being very "individual" work, it should be exploratory and educational, then tied into functional work, otherwise yes, there is a risk of it becoming "sideshow".
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Last edited by RobP3 on Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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