Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

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Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby littlepanda on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:18 am

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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby jaime_g on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:41 am

Third one is the more clear presentation imo

https://trueaiki.com/2017/12/10/tandokudosa-3-vlog/
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Tom on Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:32 pm

And specifically, these are exercises taught to Allen by his aikido teacher, the late Shirata Rinjiro who trained under Ueshiba Morihei during the 1930s "Hell Dojo" (Kobukan) days when he taught "aikijujutsu." It is foundational work that for the most part did not seem to make it into post-WW2 Aikido.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:56 pm

So is this some of the high quality internal aiki stuff that is being taught
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Trick on Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:17 pm

True Aiki! As I understood from this forum true Aiki can only be achieved if practice in Aikijutsu(daito-ryu) solo exercises. So that webpage must have detailed info on those exercises?....
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby HotSoup on Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:52 am

Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Bao on Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:17 am

Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is. :P
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Trick on Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:27 am

HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise 8-)
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Trick on Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:51 am

Bao wrote:Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is. :P

I think since the core/basic practice from beginning in Aiki(do/jutsu)/Ju Jutsu are partner exercises of the martial ways that have been out open for the public in the west ever since the days of Edward William Barton Wright, William Fairbairn and Viking Cronholm they want to focus on the (new) solo work 8-)
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:12 am

Even if these exercises had been passed down and widely practiced, I still don't think it'd do most modern Aikido folks much good anyway.

Without proper detailed instruction, they would just be "externalized" and simply performed as part of the warm-up routine at the beginning of each Aikido class.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Bao on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:03 am

Trick wrote:I think since the core/basic practice from beginning in Aiki(do/jutsu)/Ju Jutsu are partner exercises of the martial ways that have been out open for the public in the west ever since the days of Edward William Barton Wright, William Fairbairn and Viking Cronholm they want to focus on the (new) solo work 8-)


If partner exercises is the foundation of Aiki, it would be interesting to see a connection between the solo exercises and partner work. For instance, if I see Tai Chi standing exercise, I know exactly what is meant and how to translate into partner practice. But I have no clue about how what he says here translates into partner work.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Interloper on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:32 am

As CJW noted, without jikiden (direct transmission and teaching), these tanren (forging drills) are useless for internal development. You can mimic only what you see, which looks like conventional "external" movement.

All of the exercises shown require the ability to work the spine, utilize the kua (inguinal crease area... which is to say, the femoral joints) and pelvic floor, and a number of other internal manipulations as part of a process of moving the center of mass without sequentialized muscle movement and loss of structure.

Trick: Regarding shiko -- It has been said that sumo shiko used to contain internal processes, possibly from the same origins as Daito Ryu (Sagawa, et al.) shiko. Contemporary sumo seems to have lost that knowledge and skill. The versions I know come from two sources from different lines of Daito Ryu, one of which is not well known outside of Japan (and even there, it has become obscure due to old-time politics). They have a couple of superficial stylistic differences, but both contain the same underlying principles and concepts. It is a very powerful tanren for refining cross-body connections and the ability to control mass distribution in the body. Modern sumo's shiko, though, has become just a mass-dropping exercise.
Last edited by Interloper on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Interloper on Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:37 am

Bao wrote:Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is. :P


Bao,
These are internal forging drills that help a person develop very specific ways of structuring and moving the body, and, in combination with other such developed processes, they are used to generate power which can be applied to fighting/combat.
They are trained separately from martial technique, and fighting, in order to condition the body to move in that "internal" way. Then, students learn how to maintain their internal structure and power generation skills, and how to apply them in combat. But, it's a separate skill set from both learning techniques, and learning to fight.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby HotSoup on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:23 am

Trick wrote:
HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise 8-)


If you want to learn more about the exercise itself, the Aunkai guys explain it quite well. But if you rather want to track down whether Aunkai guys got it from Daito-ryu or not, well, that will be a bit of challenge ;) I'd personally also want to find out if it has to do anything with Daito-ryu, because right now it seems like this claim materialized only after Aunkai had got some traction.
Last edited by HotSoup on Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tandokudosa 1 & 2 - Allen Beebe

Postby Finny on Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:51 pm

HotSoup wrote:
Trick wrote:
HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise 8-)


If you want to learn more about the exercise itself, the Aunkai guys explain it quite well. But if you rather want to track down whether Aunkai guys got it from Daito-ryu or not, well, that will be a bit of challenge ;) I'd personally also want to find out if it has to do anything with Daito-ryu, because right now it seems like this claim materialized only after Aunkai had got some traction.


Absolutely not. There is print (and electronic) evidence of the existence of 'this claim' from before Aunkai existed, let alone 'got traction'. FYI
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