the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Internal power exercises by Allen Beebe

https://trueaiki.com/2017/11/26/tandokudosa-1-vlog/

https://trueaiki.com/2017/12/03/tandokudosa-2-vlog/

.

Third one is the more clear presentation imo

https://trueaiki.com/2017/12/10/tandokudosa-3-vlog/

So is this some of the high quality internal aiki stuff that is being taught

True Aiki! As I understood from this forum true Aiki can only be achieved if practice in Aikijutsu(daito-ryu) solo exercises. So that webpage must have detailed info on those exercises?....

Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is.

HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise

Bao wrote:Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is.

I think since the core/basic practice from beginning in Aiki(do/jutsu)/Ju Jutsu are partner exercises of the martial ways that have been out open for the public in the west ever since the days of Edward William Barton Wright, William Fairbairn and Viking Cronholm they want to focus on the (new) solo work

Even if these exercises had been passed down and widely practiced, I still don't think it'd do most modern Aikido folks much good anyway.

Without proper detailed instruction, they would just be "externalized" and simply performed as part of the warm-up routine at the beginning of each Aikido class.

Trick wrote:I think since the core/basic practice from beginning in Aiki(do/jutsu)/Ju Jutsu are partner exercises of the martial ways that have been out open for the public in the west ever since the days of Edward William Barton Wright, William Fairbairn and Viking Cronholm they want to focus on the (new) solo work

If partner exercises is the foundation of Aiki, it would be interesting to see a connection between the solo exercises and partner work. For instance, if I see Tai Chi standing exercise, I know exactly what is meant and how to translate into partner practice. But I have no clue about how what he says here translates into partner work.

As CJW noted, without jikiden (direct transmission and teaching), these tanren (forging drills) are useless for internal development. You can mimic only what you see, which looks like conventional "external" movement.

All of the exercises shown require the ability to work the spine, utilize the kua (inguinal crease area... which is to say, the femoral joints) and pelvic floor, and a number of other internal manipulations as part of a process of moving the center of mass without sequentialized muscle movement and loss of structure.

Trick: Regarding shiko -- It has been said that sumo shiko used to contain internal processes, possibly from the same origins as Daito Ryu (Sagawa, et al.) shiko. Contemporary sumo seems to have lost that knowledge and skill. The versions I know come from two sources from different lines of Daito Ryu, one of which is not well known outside of Japan (and even there, it has become obscure due to old-time politics). They have a couple of superficial stylistic differences, but both contain the same underlying principles and concepts. It is a very powerful tanren for refining cross-body connections and the ability to control mass distribution in the body. Modern sumo's shiko, though, has become just a mass-dropping exercise.

Bao wrote:Is there only solo work? Nothing that show how to use it against someone else? It all feels very uninteresting as it is.

Bao,
These are internal forging drills that help a person develop very specific ways of structuring and moving the body, and, in combination with other such developed processes, they are used to generate power which can be applied to fighting/combat.
They are trained separately from martial technique, and fighting, in order to condition the body to move in that "internal" way. Then, students learn how to maintain their internal structure and power generation skills, and how to apply them in combat. But, it's a separate skill set from both learning techniques, and learning to fight.

Trick wrote:

HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise

If you want to learn more about the exercise itself, the Aunkai guys explain it quite well. But if you rather want to track down whether Aunkai guys got it from Daito-ryu or not, well, that will be a bit of challenge I'd personally also want to find out if it has to do anything with Daito-ryu, because right now it seems like this claim materialized only after Aunkai had got some traction.

HotSoup wrote:

Trick wrote:

HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Thanks for finding. Only a word about that " mysterious" Daito-ryu sumo Shiko that is not the same as the Sumo Shiko, I had hoped for some in depth explaination of that exercise

If you want to learn more about the exercise itself, the Aunkai guys explain it quite well. But if you rather want to track down whether Aunkai guys got it from Daito-ryu or not, well, that will be a bit of challenge I'd personally also want to find out if it has to do anything with Daito-ryu, because right now it seems like this claim materialized only after Aunkai had got some traction.

Absolutely not. There is print (and electronic) evidence of the existence of 'this claim' from before Aunkai existed, let alone 'got traction'. FYI

HotSoup wrote:Seems like this is the list of solo exercises https://trueaiki.com/2017/09/02/solo-bo ... s-outline/

Bao wrote:

Trick wrote:I think since the core/basic practice from beginning in Aiki(do/jutsu)/Ju Jutsu are partner exercises of the martial ways that have been out open for the public in the west ever since the days of Edward William Barton Wright, William Fairbairn and Viking Cronholm they want to focus on the (new) solo work

If partner exercises is the foundation of Aiki, it would be interesting to see a connection between the solo exercises and partner work. For instance, if I see Tai Chi standing exercise, I know exactly what is meant and how to translate into partner practice. But I have no clue about how what he says here translates into partner work.

This is only because your are not as familiar with ground work (TDD 0, 1, ,2 and 3) as you are with standing work. It's going to become much more clear when you watch TDD 4, 5, and 6 (you are going to think "this is xingyi!") or TDD 7, 8, 9, and 10 (then you will think "this is bagua!") and TDD 11 and 12 ("This is taichi!" will come to your mind) and TDD 13 ( "Oh, zhan zhuang!")

The empty hand TDD are genius work. Very simple movements, very deep body mechanics. Really good jibengong for IMA.

There are also other groups of TDD exercises that teach body mechanics for weapons work.

C.J.W. wrote:Even if these exercises had been passed down and widely practiced, I still don't think it'd do most modern Aikido folks much good anyway.

Without proper detailed instruction, they would just be "externalized" and simply performed as part of the warm-up routine at the beginning of each Aikido class.

Agree. The exercises are awesome, but at a global level, Aikido is going to suck pretty much forever everywhere. We could say the same about the 3 big IMA's. Despite their amazing syllabus, the usual practicant is a bad joke of a martial artist.