Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

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Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby Bosque de Fresnos on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:13 pm

Today during the Taichi Chuan class
[youtube]https://youtu.be/Wla8qq3Mq4I[/youtube]

https://youtu.be/Wla8qq3Mq4I
Last edited by Bosque de Fresnos on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:58 pm

Very similar to some of the applications I've seen for "step back to repel monkey."
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby cloudz on Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:10 am

Second round of repulse monkey directly follows rooster. In fact the step back and strike/ push demonstrated is repulse monkey not rooster. The sweep/ step back is from RM. Rooster has a forward and rising energy and is about striking predominently usually with the knee and rising fist/elbow, though this could depend on the style. Eg. Wu uses a low kick and rising palm (that could double as a deflect). You could actually combine the two postures very nicely; enter/ strike with rooster then sweep/ push down using repulse monkey.

Though you like to do grappling stuff, you can't necessarily make every posture or move what you'de like it to be or fits what you are doing at the time.. Taiji is a Chinese MMA and striking is important too. . My tip would be to use rooster properly.. for what it is.. don't mean to sound harsh or anything, just some friendly advices :)
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:39 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby Ron Panunto on Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:40 am

It's an application of "brush knee and push" also.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby cloudz on Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:23 am

Yea... not for me. I don't know why people see a sweep/ retreating leg in brush knee, it's just not there.. the movement and energy is wrong. BKTS and RM are pretty much the same thing in opposite directions, so it's easy to see where the confusion comes from - pick the right one for the job at hand though. I don't believe it to be pick and mix!

If you want to takedown with BKTS you have to step in and enter leg to leg (biting) and push them over it. There's also the one where one hand blocks the leg but you usually have to alter the arc of the forward hand. Which usually goes in to out, for that application the hand needs to come in toward the opponents knee. The trade off is that that this gives up the hand control you might otherwise utilize in the former.
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby Subitai on Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:43 pm

cloudz wrote:
"Yea... not for me. I don't know why people see a sweep/ retreating leg in brush knee, it's just not there.. the movement and energy is wrong."

I just wanted to +1 this comment and the other one he made a couple prior to that about Rooster Stands on one leg usage
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:42 am

I've got several thoughts.

1. Brush Knee and Repulse Monkey are not pretty much the same thing in opposite directions
2. This particular sweep is better expressed in golden rooster and brush knee than in repulse monkey


1) Brush Knee and Twist Step is, quite plainly, a Twist Step posture the lead hand and leg are opposite sides. Like a cross punch.
Repulse Monkey is a Forward Step posture, the lead hand and leg are on the same side. Like a jab.

At a gross, external, but fundamental level, they are fundamentally different, before you even start considering the details of the upper body co-ordinations.

2) Repulse monkey, being a forward step posture, has the energy of the same side going in the same direction, as a trip or throw I see/use it more as a push on one side and a pull on the other. Using the leg to assist it is fine, but the same side would be moving in the same direction/pulling and the opposite side would be moving towards the opponent/pushing.

Brush knee, being a twist step posture, has the hand and leg on the same side moving in opposite directions. As the leg retreats, the same side hand pushes. That's the mechanic of this takedown.
I agree that as the form is taught to beginners it is difficult to see that expression, but if you've studied advanced/alternate stepping methods such as jailhouse, it's pretty obvious. Quite plainly, brush knee can be performed advancing from the rear leg or by moving the rear leg backwards, this takedown is blatantly obvious in the rear leg moving backwards variant. Try playing with it and you should see what I mean.

Likewise with golden rooster, the transition from one to the other contains a retreating leg with a forward/downward pressing hand, the fundamental mechanic of this takedown. It's even easier to see because you're starting with the retreating leg up so you can more clearly visualize the wrapping. In fact I'd say that the leg wrapping is a distinguishing detail of this particular variant of this particular takedown vs Brush Knee which is more of a thrusting or prying.

Your form, of course, may vary. But this golden rooster form, while definitely different from what I practice, embraces the same principles and is fundamentally correct in my opinion.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:22 pm

In Wu style they are exactly the same thing reverse
The leg sweep application is common in Wu especially CTH
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby oragami_itto on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:01 pm

I don't know wu, is this an accurate representation?
If so, I see what you mean, and RM is indeed pretty much a jailhouse BKTS and is the purest expression of the idea.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby shawnsegler on Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:26 pm

I like Paul's version of Brush Knee here starting at about :37.

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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:30 pm

Origami it seems like an interesting form a bit fancier than most Wu I have seen
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby cloudz on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:22 am

oragami_itto wrote:2. This particular sweep is better expressed in golden rooster and brush knee than in repulse monkey


They are if you compare BKTS with Repulse Monkey TS. He does CPL like me, so I know his form has Both.
You do Yang that typically does not contain RM TS. .
The point is correct where these two are concerned. The finishing posture is identical.

1) Brush Knee and Twist Step is, quite plainly, a Twist Step posture the lead hand and leg are opposite sides. Like a cross punch.
Repulse Monkey is a Forward Step posture, the lead hand and leg are on the same side. Like a jab.


In YANG STYLE there is only one kind of RM, this is not true for a few other styles.

At a gross, external, but fundamental level, they are fundamentally different, before you even start considering the details of the upper body co-ordinations.


I know this is what you see, but there is more to it.

Likewise with golden rooster, the transition from one to the other contains a retreating leg with a forward/downward pressing hand, the fundamental mechanic of this takedown.


Yes perhaps there is step back in transition or one can be there.. however I don't think you can really derive this takedown in a better way than Repulse Monkey. The arm is not pushing or striking forward in the way desired, it's moving down and you are going to strike again: rooster.. It's application is different. In my experience the change of leg in rooster for the other side is more 'on the spot' than stepping back. At least that's how I tend to do it now. Maybe you're thinking of the transition to RM, but I will need to review some purer Yang styles as it's been a little while..
Last edited by cloudz on Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:30 am, edited 5 times in total.
The old man calmly said: “Among the mighty are those who are mightier. In martial arts, no one presumes to praise his own ability. But because you are young, you don't know the scale of the world, and are unaware of how ridiculous you are. Why be upset?”
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:12 am

Yeah, if that's the case I agree.
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby bailewen on Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:19 am

oragami_itto wrote:I don't know wu, is this an accurate representation?
If so, I see what you mean, and RM is indeed pretty much a jailhouse BKTS and is the purest expression of the idea.


Looks like reverse step RM to me.

I don't see golden rooster anywhere in the OP. "Golden rooster" is pretty much faux-classical colloquial Chinese for anything where you balance on one leg. So that's the main part. It's totally a kick, stomp kick usually, different varieties with the hands.

OP looks like and arm-drag setup for a BKTS trip, which is cool, but not golden rooster in any way I can idendify
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Re: Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg sweep

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:18 am

I believe it's a mistake to reduce anything as large as an entire taijiquan posture to one idea. Every part and nuance of the movement can serve a function. The postures can be dissasembled and used in part or in whole or reassembled into whole new postures.

Between the golden roosters the lifted, bent leg wraps the opponents leg and then pulls down/slightly back. Following the natural arc downward the same side hand will "extend" towards the opponent during the same movement before moving down. This is the two points of contact for the push and pull of the throw they are showing.

The Repulse Monkey Twist Step (Jailhouse/Reverse Step Brush Knee) is a similar throw, but it doesn't involve the same wrapping of the leg, I see that more as a striking sort of throw to knock the legs out from under as you strike the chest.

The Brush Knee Twist Step is likewise similar, but it's more of a trip. The leg stays still and the upper body pushes the opponent across it.
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