Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby Dmitri on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:13 am

cloudz wrote:and full of himself.. not in a good way like me anyway..

;D
Well done, kind sir, well done.
Last edited by Dmitri on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:15 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby Fubo on Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:17 pm

windwalker wrote:
thanks for a well reasoned reply.

Not a big fan of showing combative things in a ph format as shown.

With Mo's clip, my only comment on it.

If one is trying to understand what or how something they did would work out of the normal context of their art,
it makes no sense to try it with a person whos skill level is not up to a level to make it self evident of
why either something would work or not.

example of someone who meets and works with others outside of the normal range of
their art with in the context he expects to use it in "the street"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX8BKQFvp8c


Sure thing. I agree with the way you'd advocate to test a skill.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby RobP3 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:34 pm

Just watched the OP. Wow. Talk about "grab my wrist".....
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:57 pm

aamc wrote:

It must be application monday?



Hmmm.....I'll give Marvin the benefit of the doubt and won't comment further until I see how he fares when a BJJ blackbelt is ON TOP of him. ;)
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:17 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.



This clip's been floating around Youtube for quite a few years now.

To me, the footage is a poignant reminder that knowing how to push people away may make you a PH champ, but never be under the illusion that the skillset alone will make you a good fighter -- an excellent humbling experience for the Taiji guy.

P.S. Judging by the uniform and accent, I'm pretty sure the Taiji guy is Taiwanese and comes from CMC line. Their school, Shihchong (適中) Taiji academy, is known for producing PH champs in Taiwan's PH competition circles. A lot of high school kids train there and compete with the hope of getting into sport universities with merit scholarships. The guy in the clip was probably one of them. I've seen them train, and there's really not much........"Taiji" in what they do. Everything they practice is geared towards winning PH competitions. The students drill high-percentage techniques like the arm-drag and step-behind cross body throw, and are told to push against heavy sandbags for conditioning.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby taiwandeutscher on Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:28 pm

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.



The TJQ guy is from Taiwan, out of a Zheng Manqing school in the centre of the island. He was champ of a so called world championships a few times, a really low level affair. Thing is that most good PHs guys do go to the National Sports Championships, where a 1st place is worth 50.000 NT$, a lot of money for young people. As that Taiwanese-only comps is mostly 2 weeks after the international World Cup, the good players do not start there, in fear of injuries. So, they send 3rd grade ppl to compete with the mostly older foreigners, who often don't even have the stamina for a few 3 min. rounds.

But the guy is schooled and experienced in fixed and moving step Pushing Hands, no question, quite good in that setting, he has't trained anything else to my knowledge, neither hitting nor groundwork is needed in his forte.

And yes, they train youngsters especially for PHs comps, without any TJQ 37 forms training, with lots of power work, it is all pulling and shoving, their T-shirts are enlarged in one bout, if you know what I mean.
Last edited by taiwandeutscher on Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:06 pm

taiwandeutscher wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.



The TJQ guy is from Taiwan, out of a Zheng Manqing school in the centre of the island. He was champ of a so called world championships a few times, a really low level affair. But the guy is schooled and experienced in fixed and moving step Pushing Hands, quite good in that setting, has't trained anything else.

The guy in the video against Marcelo is "Tuishou" Chen Chi-Cheng from Shi Jhong Tai Chi College.

World Push Hands
Published on Jan 20, 2016

Reigning world champion for over a decade, "Tuishou" Chen Chi-Cheng (Shi Jhong Tai Chi College) wins over Dan Caulfield (William C. C. Chen's US Push Hands Team) for the Gold in the Moving Step Push Hands competition (75kg) at the 7th Chung Hwa Tai Chi International Championship (Tai Chi World Cup) in Taipei, Taiwan 2004.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_KPhucYqA
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby taiwandeutscher on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:30 am

I remember that bout, the US team was so pissed, it seems they never returned, lol!
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:55 am

I wonder if he trained traditional pushing hands instead of that crap
Would he have done better against the bjj guy
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby windwalker on Thu Jan 25, 2018 12:58 am

marvin8 wrote:
taiwandeutscher wrote:
Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.



The TJQ guy is from Taiwan, out of a Zheng Manqing school in the centre of the island. He was champ of a so called world championships a few times, a really low level affair. But the guy is schooled and experienced in fixed and moving step Pushing Hands, quite good in that setting, has't trained anything else.

The guy in the video against Marcelo is "Tuishou" Chen Chi-Cheng from Shi Jhong Tai Chi College.

World Push Hands
Published on Jan 20, 2016

Reigning world champion for over a decade, "Tuishou" Chen Chi-Cheng (Shi Jhong Tai Chi College) wins over Dan Caulfield (William C. C. Chen's US Push Hands Team) for the Gold in the Moving Step Push Hands competition (75kg) at the 7th Chung Hwa Tai Chi International Championship (Tai Chi World Cup) in Taipei, Taiwan 2004.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px_KPhucYqA



watching the clips reminded me of something called called Ssireum...

Had the opportunity to try some mantis against a couple of these guys in Korea while in the US Army long ago. at a local live fire missile range shoot during our down time.

My GI's where watching some of the ROK soldiers tossing each other around. The young GIs being GIs and young didn't seem to appreciate the art.

I suggested they should should try it, telling them they wouldn't do to well..ha that was all it took... ;)
It was funny watching them get tossed by the much smaller ROK soldiers,
all in good but rough fun.

My troops knowing I practiced CMA suddenly got the bright idea of me going up against them.
Manged to win 1 out 3 rounds....it was fun, they'er quite strong and well balanced.
Way before I had any type of taiji training....My approach would be quite different now.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vFqK8fS24A
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:00 am

RobP3 wrote:Just watched the OP. Wow. Talk about "grab my wrist".....


No - the other wrist!

No! My other wrist!
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:13 am

Ssireum looks very interesting - folk wrestling appears naturally all over the world. It appears wherever there are humans. That’s what push hands comps are really - a kind of reinvented folk wrestling. Anybody versed in any wrestling style would do well under those rules.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby Steve James on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:10 am

Yep, all folk have wrestling. I think rules level everything out when everyone is required to follow them. But, then I think the specific original style is irrelevant. Maybe, in addition to mma, there should be a wrestling event open to any style. What might eventually emerge is a universal style that everyone anywhere could practice.

Afa "phs" against bjj, ... no, except for fun. Competition is also good.
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby GrahamB on Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:46 am

There kind of is Steve - it's called ADCC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADCC_Subm ... ampionship
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Re: Chen TaiJi and BJJ Mashup.

Postby Steve James on Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:11 am

Yeah, Abu Dhabi rules would be fine. "Catch as catch can." The essential benefit would be the sharing.
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