the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

It must be application monday?

Decades of taiji training vs probably less than a year of BJJ training, AND it's his student...
How about going to a BJJ gym and trying it on a stranger with even 3-4 years of training...

Dmitri wrote:Decades of taiji training...

Just a general thought without addressing the quality of the performance or the clip... One could think that after decades of any kind of MA training the practitioner would eventually get past the this “technique vs technique” thinking; the “if he does that, I do this” kind of mentality... This is what I have believed anyway. But I think I might have been wrong that this should be the natural progress...

So bad it’s like a parody. He literally doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.

Just a factual point Ian - the guys name is Chen, not his style - I think he is a push hands champion - a Cheng manching stylist from Malaysia.

Far from being a shuaijiao expert, my experience (short term with Chang Dungsheng), study shuaijiao and your taijiquan applications will increase 10 fold! No secret, just hard work and determination.
You will be able to wrestle dragon, tigers and elephants

GrahamB wrote:

Ian C. Kuzushi wrote:"So the first thing I do is I give him an armbar."

Yeah, why does it make sense to do this well-intentioned exchange with a "rusty" white belt? That is not a reasonable way to see how things stack up.

Here is another exchange. Note that Marcelo is playing the Chen guy's game and not doing ground work.

Just a factual point Ian - the guys name is Chen, not his style - I think he is a push hands champion - a Cheng manching stylist from Malaysia.

Thanks, Graham. I remember when I first saw the vid a while back there was more info. This vid has karate do listed for some strange reason. I did think the taiji player's moves looked somewhat similar to some of the Chen competition stuff I had seen, but so did Mario's performance in Chen Village and he was a CMC guy, too.

I appreciate the correction, as always.

Best, Ian

Marcelos first blackbelt, Josh Waitzkin, is a Taiji Push Hands World Champ so i assume that is how the connection was made for Marcelo to be working in this setting. Josh can be seen at the start of the video.

Ref the ground work by Moling .... I think Graham said what i thought. Well done for him trying ... i guess.

So terrible in so many ways...

If he wants to know how to grapple, he should go to a gym that teaches grappling and learn. As Graham said, "he doesn't know what he doesn't know", and apparently that's a lot.

Its a problem with many CMA teachers/masters that have not interacted much outside of their own field of expertise.
In seeking to step out so to speak some try it from a relatively safe environment where they still feel they have some degree of control.

The major problem as was noted being that the level is very unequal allowing things to be done that normally one would not be able to do.

Having said this whats the difference between this thread compared to this viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26724

Which "chinwoo noted: I agree, once again Paul shows great technical skills, but not practical in a realistic fight situation at all?.


Understanding they are examples shown within a context with someone of lesser skill in order to show a skill.
Is there a difference between the clips?

windwalker wrote:Its a problem with many CMA teachers/masters that have not interacted much outside of their own field of expertise.
In seeking to step out so to speak some try it from a relatively safe environment where they still feel they have some degree of control.

The major problem as was noted being that the level is very unequal allowing things to be done that normally one would not be able to do.

Having said this whats the difference between this thread compared to this viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26724

Which "chinwoo noted: I agree, once again Paul shows great technical skills, but not practical in a realistic fight situation at all?.


Understanding they are examples shown within a context with someone of lesser skill in order to show a skill.
Is there a difference between the clips?

The difference is the Chen against BJJ guy makes a lot of fundamental beginner mistakes that anyone with a little less than a years training could take advantage of. He's over committed his posture and weight, his base is way to high and narrow, he's attacking the guy inside the guys guard, he's giving the guy his arm etc, and anyone with any amount of skill would have swept him or submitted him. The BJJ white belt was trying to apply a techniques without even setting it up. I could go on but yes u get the point.

Paul doesn't make these mistakes within the context he was working. It's not just about the difference in skill, it's about what your application reveals about what you know and dont know.

He kinda always was a bit of a numpty boy and full of himself.. not in a good way like me anyway.. he recently acted like a total tit prima donna on a relatively new facebook group we were both on.

It's all very well experimenting privately in your own time I suppose, right ? But what's the motivation of putting it out there, that's precisely the moment it's questionable.
And so it is. He can't possibly believe he lives in a bubble, so people are going to see it for what it is.

Someone who is not competent in that position and doing things that will get him snuffed out very quickly by those that are.
Or is everyone supposed to be impressed and say well done. No, better to tell him to go learn from the experts in those positions. Who's it supposed to serve: other wannabe TCMA guys who probably know even less than him about what they don't know?

Seems simply like a case of the blind leading the blind and it shouldn't pass without it being said should it.

Fubo wrote:
It's not just about the difference in skill, it's about what your application reveals about what you know and dont know.

thanks for a well reasoned reply.

Not a big fan of showing combative things in a ph format as shown.

With Mo's clip, my only comment on it.

If one is trying to understand what or how something they did would work out of the normal context of their art,
it makes no sense to try it with a person whos skill level is not up to a level to make it self evident of
why either something would work or not.

example of someone who meets and works with others outside of the normal range of
their art with in the context he expects to use it in "the street"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX8BKQFvp8c