the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Tiga Pukul wrote:Isn't TaiJi also supposed to train for high quality in hitting?

Or is it just the wrestling variation that is practiced in the West?

cloudz wrote:

grahamB wrote: I absorbed your force (send it to the ground via the back foot) without moving back, and bounce you back by sending that force back at you.... am I yielding? I think a lot of tai chi people would count that as a 'yes', even though I am not physically retreating from your force.

I don't really want to open up a can of worms but I think this is the whole terminology, jargon issue rearing it's head.
For me now; yielding is a subset of neutralizing.

I'll try to be clearer.. Yielding for me has come to represent the tactic and or method of 'moving with'.
Whilst it does neutralize force; Nuetralizing can also use other methods other than this yielding/ moving with; the main one rotation (deflecting with 4oz skill) and what you're calling the method your pic alludes to.. rooting/ grounding

For your question my answer would be not yielding per se in that case but still a nuetralizing skill (hua) by way of <insert jargon of choice>
So far we have 3 main ways to "hua" or neutralize force coming in; grounding, rotation and yielding(moving with). One more for when we aren't tactile; evasion.

This/evasion is like yielding/moving with actually (imo) just when you are not in tactile contact.

GrahamB wrote:

cloudz wrote:

grahamB wrote: I absorbed your force (send it to the ground via the back foot) without moving back, and bounce you back by sending that force back at you.... am I yielding? I think a lot of tai chi people would count that as a 'yes', even though I am not physically retreating from your force.

I don't really want to open up a can of worms but I think this is the whole terminology, jargon issue rearing it's head.
For me now; yielding is a subset of neutralizing.

I'll try to be clearer.. Yielding for me has come to represent the tactic and or method of 'moving with'.
Whilst it does neutralize force; Nuetralizing can also use other methods other than this yielding/ moving with; the main one rotation (deflecting with 4oz skill) and what you're calling the method your pic alludes to.. rooting/ grounding

For your question my answer would be not yielding per se in that case but still a nuetralizing skill (hua) by way of <insert jargon of choice>
So far we have 3 main ways to "hua" or neutralize force coming in; grounding, rotation and yielding(moving with). One more for when we aren't tactile; evasion.

This/evasion is like yielding/moving with actually (imo) just when you are not in tactile contact.

So, ignoring the jargon (whether it's called 'neautralising' or 'yielding') would you agree with my larger point that the method described is actually part of push hands?

GrahamB wrote:An unusual title for a thread... but watch this vid on Connor McGregor's takedown defence and you can see the similarities to concepts from taijiquan tui shou like sticking, following and listening.

GrahamB wrote:I don't think you could see it on video, if he was doing that. Although I think Connor just throwing up a frame and doing whatever he can to block the attacker from advancing to a clinch, while moving back, out of the way.

marvin8 wrote:

GrahamB wrote:An unusual title for a thread... but watch this vid on Connor McGregor's takedown defence and you can see the similarities to concepts from taijiquan tui shou like sticking, following and listening.

I would agree some of the concepts, goals and effects on opponent are similar, without getting into exact terminology. Conor probes, listens, sticks, siezes, yields, follows, etc. I see Conor using more similar Tai Chi concepts than other Tai Chi sparring/fight videos.

GrahamB wrote:I don't think you could see it on video, if he was doing that. Although I think Connor just throwing up a frame and doing whatever he can to block the attacker from advancing to a clinch, while moving back, out of the way.

Yes, I saw that. He is controlling distance and preventing high level wrestlers' takedowns by seizing . At 2:10 of the OP video, Conor is warding off and releasing (yielding) against punches.

Here Conor is practicing yielding against takedowns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCTIxF1MexY

is this considered force against force?