Tai ji Qin Na

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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:45 am

Yes the only way to know what happens when an attacker is 'switched on' is to go for it with your teacher !

Once the student reaiise that the teacher is far beyond you in skill, they can loosen mind and body and start to observe what he is actually trying to teach.

ie. This was a video record for the students in Germany, not for 'demo'...the guys there all know that however fast or whatever intention they use its same result.


Hi Alex,

I think you mis understand my point. Being switched on is not a fight. not to do with speed etc IMO. However, there are 2 sides to the exchange between teacher and student. There is what the teacher is showing and what the student is subconciously engraining. If for most of my time as a student i am engraining to be soft, and loose minded as an Uke then I spend most of the time training this state. To unlearn this is extremely hard.

I actually wrote a small article on this very subject.
https://www.martialbody.com/Blog-Research/Blog/ArticleID/96/Training-to-give-up

REgardless, Thanks for the responce.
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby retreats108 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:35 am

Aha I see Chris, I just read your text.

I agree with many of the point you make. But generalisations are just that, general , I am more interested in how specific teachers and schools train.

For example -

'This is a problem I see as pervasive in some areas of the martial arts community.'

I agree, but there are also many TCMA schools which train equally as realistically as any 'sports fighter' (I lived in a Muay Thai gym with several Thai champions, so have a good reference point).

So lets talk specifics - anyone stepping into Paul Roger's little courtyard with his senior students will get a big surprise, regardless how good they think they are, if they think these guys only practice 'applications'.

What I experienced there was quite violent, shocking, extremely aggressive and as challenging as any 'street' attack I have ever had (except being chased by seven stick-wielding taxi drivers in Moscow....) .

Those guys are like wild tigers when they get going, although Paul has that plus the extremely refined, mind-boggling skill, and a penetrating 'Zen Mind'.

So lets be clear, there is no flakey-Uke stuff there at all .

In a real school of TCMA there is shou-fa (what you see on the videos we discussed here), tui-fa, shen-fa etc...and then the tui shou, da shou, san shou.

Don't mistake the paintbrush and paint for the finished painting!

We can be sure too that this is how Serge, Sifu Sam Chin, Paul Whitrod, Chen Yuen San and many others train their close guys.

For those doing flakey stuff, fakery etc - I am discovering it is a waste of energy to try to point it out.

Real teachers will find real students.

Always happy to discuss specifics with you.
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:00 am

HI Alex,

thanks for the responce. I know we butt heads on a few subjecs, but this is not one of them particularly (maybe just the value of generalisation vs specificity ;) )

You have read my comment and seem to have added 'traditional' to your responce. I am not discussing sport fighting vs traditional in that article. In fact I dont think that distinction is particularly useful, I would not class my friends in Serges School as sport fighters for instance, but i have no doubts about them.

So lets talk specifics - anyone stepping into Paul Roger's little courtyard with his senior students will get a big surprise, regardless how good they think they are, if they think these guys only practice 'applications'....

So lets be clear, there is no flakey-Uke stuff there at all .


I actually was not questioning that there was. I was suggesting that in all interactions I personally dislike to encourage this lack of awareness. All i have to go on is the videos in front of me and those he shares of course. Nice to hear there are some battles in that courtyard.

It seems my comments were misunderstood again. Probably my Generalisation vs your specificity. I am not attacking Paul or his school, simply looking for the discussion you encouraged earlier.

regardless thank you :)
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby retreats108 on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:06 am

Ha its all good brother!

its the nature of internet communication to misunderstand )))
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby middleway on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:07 am

Ha its all good brother!

its the nature of internet communication to misunderstand )))


;) :D
Last edited by middleway on Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby bailu on Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:15 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMfytGwt89Q

I like this video showing how Steve just flows into and between each lock. On an earlier video, he talked about how a lot of people can't make qinna "work" because they think of "locks" as techniques, rather than ideas.
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby Greg J on Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:41 am

middleway wrote:

for most of my time as a student i am engraining to be soft, and loose minded as an Uke then I spend most of the time training this state. To unlearn this is extremely hard.

I actually wrote a small article on this very subject.

https://www.martialbody.com/Blog-Research/Blog/ArticleID/96/Training-to-give-up



Hi Middleway,

This is an awesome article. I appreciate that the solution you propose is not training aggression, but rather training to counter and continue. It makes sense to me that once this is instilled in a reasonably relaxed state, it can be more efficiently trained in an adrenal state.

Best,
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Re: Tai ji Qin Na

Postby middleway on Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:07 am

This is an awesome article. I appreciate that the solution you propose is not training aggression, but rather training to counter and continue. It makes sense to me that once this is instilled in a reasonably relaxed state, it can be more efficiently trained in an adrenal state.


Thanks Greg. I totally agree with the progression you suggest there.
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