Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

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Re: Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

Postby Bao on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:31 am

Trick wrote:I'm inline of this procedure too, first development/conditioning by solo exercises then add continued development/conditioning by partner work, probably a very common procedure but best to take it step by step...I think


I worked with push hands and push hands similar exercises and application from day one. Every class had a whole lot more partner work than solo work. When my teacher put pressure on me with his hand, he would say things like: "Relax better, turn your waist more, better stance, don't raise shoulders, sink elbows, don't go out too far, straighten up," etc, etc. A lot and a lot of small details were drilled. I took what I learned through partner exercises and put it into my forms and solo practice and my form was corrected from there. For me the correct principles were drilled from partner work, not from solo work. Orrigami_itto is correct with that there is nothing from the beginning to work with. But sometimes starting from empty is better. I don't know what method is better, but everything in my form and solo work always had a functional purpose. I would not want to be taught any other way. I see a whole lot of practitioners who have practiced a whole lot of solo work before push hands and similar exercises. Some of them have a completely wrong appreciation of balance and and they must re-learn a lot when they start partner work. Some of them are unwilling to or find it impossible to change because they have already a too strong and fixed idea of what they are doing. The result is a bad use of balance, tension, too much pressure etc.
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Re: Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:48 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:I'm inline of this procedure too, first development/conditioning by solo exercises then add continued development/conditioning by partner work, probably a very common procedure but best to take it step by step...I think


I worked with push hands and push hands similar exercises and application from day one. Every class had a whole lot more partner work than solo work. When my teacher put pressure on me with his hand, he would say things like: "Relax better, turn your waist more, better stance, don't raise shoulders, sink elbows, don't go out too far, straighten up," etc, etc. A lot and a lot of small details were drilled. I took what I learned through partner exercises and put it into my forms and solo practice and my form was corrected from there. For me the correct principles were drilled from partner work, not from solo work. Orrigami_itto is correct with that there is nothing from the beginning to work with. But sometimes starting from empty is better. I don't know what method is better, but everything in my form and solo work always had a functional purpose. I would not want to be taught any other way. I see a whole lot of practitioners who have practiced a whole lot of solo work before push hands and similar exercises. Some of them have a completely wrong appreciation of balance and and they must re-learn a lot when they start partner work. Some of them are unwilling to or find it impossible to change because they have already a too strong and fixed idea of what they are doing. The result is a bad use of balance, tension, too much pressure etc.


Since we're talking about the DT course (bear in mind I don't have any inside info about the way it's laid out, only what I can surmise by looking at it) it's stated initial purpose was to supplement folks attending his seminars and give them something to work with to keep from losing what they'd learned from year to year. The seminars have a lot of partner work. Folks studying at home are most likely studying alone and already have the drills from the seminar if they are the "ideal student" the course was designed for.
For the rest of us, consider the format. You've got a 20 minute video every week focusing on a single aspect of the practice with laser precision. It's simultaneously a huge amount of material and not much space. The stuff that precedes the partner work is more important as a foundation for the partner work.
Then consider that, as correspondence students, most of us are still doing our own thing in one way or another. I'm still down at the park doing push hands on Sunday and the Push Hands and Solo Work both improve each other. Coincidentally, another of the regulars at the push hands group is also studying the mizner curriculum and I'd consider him one of the best I've touched. It's hard to say for sure because when people are better than me I can't quantify beyond what they're willing to show me and he reveals absolutely nothing lol.
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Re: Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

Postby Trick on Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:30 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:I'm inline of this procedure too, first development/conditioning by solo exercises then add continued development/conditioning by partner work, probably a very common procedure but best to take it step by step...I think


I worked with push hands and push hands similar exercises and application from day one. Every class had a whole lot more partner work than solo work. When my teacher put pressure on me with his hand, he would say things like: "Relax better, turn your waist more, better stance, don't raise shoulders, sink elbows, don't go out too far, straighten up," etc, etc. A lot and a lot of small details were drilled. I took what I learned through partner exercises and put it into my forms and solo practice and my form was corrected from there. For me the correct principles were drilled from partner work, not from solo work. Orrigami_itto is correct with that there is nothing from the beginning to work with. But sometimes starting from empty is better. I don't know what method is better, but everything in my form and solo work always had a functional purpose. I would not want to be taught any other way. I see a whole lot of practitioners who have practiced a whole lot of solo work before push hands and similar exercises. Some of them have a completely wrong appreciation of balance and and they must re-learn a lot when they start partner work. Some of them are unwilling to or find it impossible to change because they have already a too strong and fixed idea of what they are doing. The result is a bad use of balance, tension, too much pressure etc.

Yes the partner work help the solo practice and that in turn support the partner exercises, they go hand in hand for some seemingly from beginners class and for others a little further in the learning process, neither way is wrong I think as long as one not try to rush throu everything in hope for quick result
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Re: Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

Postby marvin8 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:42 am

Bao wrote:Solo practice, drills, stance work form etc. i.e. the most of that I have understood (I can be wrong) that he teach through his online courses, has absolutely nothing to do with timing and following & adapting skill.

From Discover the power of Taiji With Sifu Adam Mizner, http://www.discovertaiji.com/en/index.html:
The most powerful and complete online Tai Chi Chuan training program in existence

Some of the things you will be learning:
• Qigong
• System's complete Jibengong
• Standing Post
• Song Shen Wu Fa
• The 37 forms
Many partner drills
• Developing the Jins/energies
• Sword form
Last edited by marvin8 on Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Martial Man - Adam Mizner revisited

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:17 am

As always, Marvin8 swoops in with the citations! :D
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