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Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:44 am
by Aqui
Alright,
with all the speculation about Adam Mizner's material I thought I post a video showing Adam's top student Andy Mack doing free Push Hands with German Judoka Herbert Arndt.




Now I know that people will start with "Herbert Arndt has no skill..." but Herbert Arndt is a German National Judo Champion, European Judo Champion and won third place in the Judo World Championship starting in the 100+ kg division.

I am really curious how you guys here rate Andy's performance!!!

Best Aqui

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:59 am
by Bao
Yeah, I’ve watched it. He used speed and a whole lot of strength and shoveling. But I am not an expert on shoveling wrestling, so maybe some one else with more experience on competition push hands and similar might be better to judge the quality of the player.

It’s a bit different from this one:



https://youtube.com/watch?v=iBnBtNdqXqE

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:04 am
by jaime_g
Aqui wrote:Alright,
with all the speculation about Adam Mizner's material I thought I post a video showing Adam's top student Andy Mack doing free Push Hands with German Judoka Herbert Arndt.




Now I know that people will start with "Herbert Arndt has no skill..." but Herbert Arndt is a German National Judo Champion, European Judo Champion and won third place in the Judo World Championship starting in the 100+ kg division.

I am really curious how you guys here rate Andy's performance!!!

Best Aqui


Not bad against an out of shape 60+ years old

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:05 am
by Aqui
Hey Jamie,

TBH I had a similar thought (concerning the age) when I first saw the video, but Herbert Arndt won his titles within the last 2 years and is currently competing.

Image

Image

The weight, well that's how heavyweight Judo guys look, nothing to complain about!
For me the weight is clearly a sign for Andy's skill, Arndt outweighs him by at least 100 pounds.

Best,

Aqui

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:06 am
by marvin8
Here's another Mizner student.

Discover Taiji
Published on Nov 30, 2016

Heaven Man Earth Instructor Ramzi Nabulsi playing push hands in Malaysia - with JK Yeo, Victor Yen, Tiger Tan, Pang Chan Ming and others.

Ramzi Nabulsi is a senior disciple of Sifu Adam Mizner, he is a Silver in blue belt openweight division in the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Mixed Martial Arts Federation of Jordan tournament, as well as a Gold in the MMA heavyweight championship at the FIOGA world mixed martial arts competition.:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mumtIjeQ_w

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:07 am
by Aqui
Bao wrote:It’s a bit different from this one:



https://youtube.com/watch?v=iBnBtNdqXqE


That's a great point, what these guys do in demo mode looks very differently when under pressure BUT it still works under pressure!!!

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:27 am
by middleway
BUT it still works under pressure!!!


Can you explain to me the goal then please? If this is a demonstration that 'it works', i think we need to understand what the goal is.

From my POV Arndt didnt look particularly off balance at any point, just had to step, but of course thats not really a problem at all for any fighter, wrestler or grappler. If the Goal is to make the partner step, ok, but Andy Mac steps multiple times to shove or gain angle.

thanks.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:35 am
by cloudz
BUT it still works under pressure!!!


That's like praising a car for being drivable.
But what's clear is that what works for them in demo mode DOESN'T under pressure.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:36 am
by cloudz
middleway wrote:
BUT it still works under pressure!!!


Can you explain to me the goal then please? If this is a demonstration that 'it works', i think we need to understand what the goal is.

From my POV Arndt didnt look particularly off balance at any point, just had to step, but of course thats not really a problem at all for any fighter, wrestler or grappler. If the Goal is to make the partner step, ok, but Andy Mac steps multiple times to shove or gain angle.

thanks.



They're just happy Andy didn't end up on his arse. But then as you point out, neither did the other guy.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:38 am
by cloudz
Aqui wrote:Hey Jamie,

TBH I had a similar thought (concerning the age) when I first saw the video, but Herbert Arndt won his titles within the last 2 years and is currently competing.

Image

Image

The weight, well that's how heavyweight Judo guys look, nothing to complain about!
For me the weight is clearly a sign for Andy's skill, Arndt outweighs him by at least 100 pounds.

Best,

Aqui


Is this an overs category; seems wierd they are all old.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:40 am
by cloudz
What you're missing Chris is that the big dude outweighed him, I think that's supposed to be the impressive bit; like CXW holding out against the giant Sumo or whatever. Some folks are so easily pleased as you know.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:50 am
by marvin8
Another Mizner student.

Steffan de Graffenried
Published on Sep 8, 2013

A friendly/not so friendly push hands bout between Richard Clear of Maryville, TN and Steffan de Graffenried of Huntsville, AL:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m184UX0R5z0

Steffan de Graffenried
Published on Jul 19, 2011

In a sudden death overtime round of the unlimited weight class finals, Steffan de Graffenried scores a point over Jan Lucanus (William C. C. Chen Push Hands Team) for the gold medal win in this Restricted Step Push Hands match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWhMMQJ3d10

Steffan de Graffenried
Published on Jul 19, 2011

Steffan de Graffenried outscores Jordan Forth (William C. C. Chen Push Hands Team) for the win in this unlimited weight class Restricted Step Push Hands match:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cnujoBNSX8

Steffan de Graffenried
Published on Jul 19, 2010

Steffan de Graffenried vs. Bob at the St. Petersburg, Florida Internal and Push Hands Championships July 17, 2010:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3zv9APyXvA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHSaq5l2Q4A

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:07 am
by Bao
cloudz wrote:What you're missing Chris is that the big dude outweighed him, I think that's supposed to be the impressive bit;


The Mizner student used speed and managed to over power the less mobile big guy. I don’t think that the German judoka suspected such an aggressive play inside a school. You can imagine If the German fellow had put in the same force in his palms and been as aggressive. It would have turned into a real fight. So I believe that the judoka took it easy and decided to lose with dignity. There was no honor in that play from the HME guy and it was certainly not an honorable win.

Aqui wrote: what these guys do in demo mode looks very differently when under pressure BUT it still works under pressure!!!


What you see in the demo and in the free play are not the same. It’s not the same skill sets shown.

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:30 am
by willie
The only clip that I like is the one with Ramzi in Malaysia.
"Note the forward lean"

Re: Adam Mizner's top student tested (push hands)

PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:58 am
by oragami_itto
As long as we're talking Mizner again, what do y'all think of this