self protection Mexico

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self protection Mexico

Postby emptycloud on Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:04 am

I always enjoy Bruno's vids, clean, fast and efficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK9DWTqMH28

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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby Giles on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:25 am

(Just for fun...)
-- 0:50 to 1:15 -- variant of cloud hands
-- 1:20 -- opening with 'bong sau'

Now a little more seriously: I'm not competent to judge the finer points of knife defence but to my amateur eye it looks OK. What I really dislike is the way he finishes off many sequences from 2:45 onwards by "killing" the attacker. Defend yourself, yes!!; break the attacker's arm and/or knock him out, yes, fine; but after you've got him on the ground, taken away the knife and already presumably done him some serious damage, then open up his throat as a final flourish...? :-\ ::)
To my mind that's total posing and/or training (young) guys to move beyond the boundaries of the necessary and into committing revenge murder. Maybe in legal terms (depending on the judge's verdict) and certainly in terms of ethics/karma/the rest of your own life.
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby willie on Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:58 am

The video looked quite good
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby wiesiek on Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:39 am

You know, Giles
when somebody is pullin`out the knife
you don`t play a knight.
If you decide to fight -
aim is to stay a live longer than him,
remember?
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby Giles on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:49 am

Basically you're right, Wiesiek. But I'm not talking about any "protect the attacker just like you protect yourself" philosophy. Especially not if it's some f****er who wants to put a knife in me. In that case, doing serious damage to the attacker is obviously a very good idea, if you can't just up and run.

But look, the title of the video is "Self protection". Which means civil self-defence. Not "H2H kill-the-enemy-on-the-battlefield training". If you've managed to get the other guy down, maybe break his arm in the process and/or knock him silly for a moment, and you now have possession of the knife (as shown in this video) then you have protected yourself. Now get yourself away, take the knife with you and hand it to the police later, or do whatever else the situation demands. What it doesn't demand is then killing the guy for no reason relating to "self protection". Much higher chances of you going to prison (for a long time) and/or you (or your family) being a target for revenge by other people. And that is not "self protection". But he's apparently teaching this to young guys.

Reminds me of a story told to me by a tai chi brother of mine from Spain. He knew a guy who was an experienced judoka. Some guy picked a fight with this judoka in a bar, then attacked him. The judoka defended and threw the guy onto the floor, which already put him out of action. Then for good measure, because he was angry, he kicked the guy in the ribs as he lay there. A rib broke, pierced the guy's heart and he died. The judoka went to prison for several years. Not because of the throw, only because of the kick. Bad "self protection".

(Although I must say that I'm lucky never to have been attacked by someone with a knife. Been threatened with one a few times, but always very low-level stuff. So I don't know how I'd react in the moment. But not that way, I hope.)
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby Dmitri on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:17 pm

[cue JW talking about "finish moves"] :)

Never been crazy about demos where the guy just stands motionless while the demonstrator unleashes a neverending barrage of deadly attacks on him... This is not as bad as some but I'm just not a fan of those I-can-move-20-times-faster-than-you clips.

Techniques themselves look alright (to my semi-untrained eye anyway), except for the very first one -- am I the only one having a bit of a problem with it? The "knife hand" in that one travels very close to his vital areas when he forces it downward and circles it around/to the side... An attacker with a big-muscled arm giving him a strong committed jab just might slice things up down there a little, during that maneuver... :-/
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby Steve James on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:45 pm

I dunno. Where I live, there'd be only a couple of potential knife attack scenarios. The most probable is that there'll be a group of guys to surround and one or two with knives. The other is an ambush or sneak attack by one person. In the latter situation, it's possible that there'll be a chance to try some technique or other. Well, the third is a combination of the first and second, with the important addition of the intent to kill.

Imo, with a group of armed attackers, c'mon, give 'em your wallet and watch, if they ask. "IF" they ask, they probably don't want to kill you. With a single attacker, it's the same, actually. However, if you're in a struggle against a guy with a knife who's trying to stab you, I don't think stabbing him is a problem.

I agree with Giles, though. Deliberately killing someone when it isn't necessary will get you into trouble. Otoh, if the person survives, you could get into more trouble. I think that, ideally, the goal is to incapacitate the attacker --when it comes to self-defense. Imo, training with a blade, for self defense, should be aimed at learning how to do that efficiently. That just means learning where to cut and why.

For me, practicing cuts that will kill (which is common in fma, for ex) makes perfect sense. Killing a helpless person is not self defense.
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:51 pm

The guy is pretty terrible
On the finishing moves most FMA or Silat guys show killing the attacker
He may be the first of a number of attackers and that was how the art developed
I agree with the fact that the defender moving at a pace greater than the attacker shows a lack of reality
I always get my students to react at the same speed as the attack
If you want to move faster speed up the attack and his counter to the defence
Last edited by wayne hansen on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby wiesiek on Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:44 am

@Giles you`re basically right too :)
I like just pointing out ,- it is not just "Self protection", it is Mexico ...

I personally was twice in the >pulling the knife< situation, but menage to run away, what is always the best option /if possible/.

During the trainings with the tools, not staged, done as close to the real as we was able to do - I`ve been cut/stab quite often , didn`t get to the "natural" move level in such situation, not nuf training time spend there, I suppose.
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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby emptycloud on Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:53 pm

this is a little less queasy, I agree the throat slash is over the top, however perhaps Mexico city is rude boy town.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erNiroKv26w

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Re: self protection Mexico

Postby emptycloud on Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:25 am

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