Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby marvin8 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:11 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Is the lee association that of chee soo

No, it was a local Lee Family Association (Benevolent) in the U.S.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:44 pm

marvin8 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
marvin8 wrote:So, do you believe one can turn their foot inwards without falling over or one will fall over (crumble) as willie implied?


Plum flower mantis, has stances were the foot is turned in.

Image
http://www.chinamantis.com/new-page-26.htm

Per willie's statements, this is a week stance as the foot should be pointing straight towards the opponent.

As you stated, you are in agreement with willie. Is your opinion this is a weak stance?


Do you understand the function an usage ? Do you feel the WC guys stance and this is the same?

I didn't post this after thinking about it for the very reasons that you'er illustrating now.
Why you choose to repost it after I had deleted it is beyond me.

Try posting your own a opinion based on your own understanding.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby willie on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:59 pm

windwalker wrote:I didn't post this after thinking about it for the very reasons that you'er illustrating now..

I'm curious as to why not?
One of my training partners was a fourth black slash who had very good mantis. That front foot being turned in had a purpose to it. He was using it as a hook to hook and drag his opponents leading front foot out from under them . It was primarily a grappling move and not a showpiece. Now because of the advancements that have been made in MMA, that move would be very difficult to pull off. The reason being is that MMA fighters are constantly lifting their front leg to avoid Muay Thai kicks. So if somebody tried to just hook and drag it like that, they would probably just lift their leg. Of course that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work once in awhile if they were caught off guard.
I can't really tell from that angle, but it appears to be that Stance Can be or is
Geometrically triangulated and perhaps a bit forward-leaning. Do you have a photo of this type of stance from the side view?
Last edited by willie on Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby windwalker on Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:18 pm

willie wrote:I'm curious as to why not?
Didn't feel it was an honest inquiry and would only invite more questions

One of my training partners was a fourth black slash who had very good mantis. That front foot being turned in had a purpose to it. He was using it as a hook to hook and drag his opponents leading front foot out from under them . It was primarily a grappling move and not a showpiece. Now because of the advancements that have been made in MMA, that move would be very difficult to pull off. The reason being is that MMA fighters are constantly lifting their front leg to avoid Muay Thai kicks. So if somebody tried to just hook and drag it like that, they would probably just lift their leg. Which is what they would want and expect one to do...Mantis theory is based on movement in beats performed at high speed predicated on logical reactions that most would make. Of course that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work once in awhile if they were caught off guard.
I can't really tell from that angle, but it appears to be that Stance Can be or is
Geometrically triangulated and perhaps a bit forward-leaning. Do you have a photo of this type of stance from the side view?


Roger in the pic a kung fu bother of mine, the pic is from the 70s of a mantis style called plum flower as taught by our teacher at the time


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

This clip by another school in Korea shows the same type of stance and foot work applied.
As to your thoughts. The mantis is very fast, maybe faster then most would think possible.
As with many things it depends on a persons achievement with what ever they use. MMA and mantis theory
are different. Mantis was part of my own history which I no longer practice but am a little bit familiar with.

CMA as some have mentioned is undergoing and adapting to the differences in fighting.

The guy Xu, dosn't from what I've heard want to deal with any CMA guys who are adapting their training.

Hop gar among other styles was known for fighting, is known for fighting, adapting what they do to todays ring


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eafI2pTlJJs

from the same gym
"Sifu Heintzman working several years back. Instruction in tai ji chin na (seizing and locking) application of knee brush."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJwsbWKNS0
Last edited by windwalker on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby Trick on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:30 pm

marvin8 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
marvin8 wrote:So, do you believe one can turn their foot inwards without falling over or one will fall over (crumble) as willie implied?


Plum flower mantis, has stances were the foot is turned in.

Image
http://www.chinamantis.com/new-page-26.htm

Per willie's statements, this is a week stance as the foot should be pointing straight towards the opponent.

As you stated, you are in agreement with willie. Is your opinion this is a weak stance?

Have never studied Tanglangquan but I don't think for a second that a posture as that is a "ready to fight(guard)"posture it has other application.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby AJG on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:42 pm

Are we seriously debating specific foot positioning on this thread.

FFS

Oh well carry on
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby Trick on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:59 pm

As for me I'm not much of an debater, not very good with words, but I try
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby RobP3 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:51 am

windwalker wrote:
from the same gym
"Sifu Heintzman working several years back. Instruction in tai ji chin na (seizing and locking) application of knee brush."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgJwsbWKNS0


How do you get that guilotine and backward roll from BKP?
Last edited by RobP3 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby willie on Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:35 am

windwalker wrote:
willie wrote:I'm curious as to why not?
Didn't feel it was an honest inquiry and would only invite more questions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

Yeah, I agree, I also did not feel that the request was an honest one. Nice mantis!
Original yang? LOL!
Last edited by willie on Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby middleway on Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:36 am

How do you get that guilotine and backward roll from BKP?


I think its the same way you get a square peg into a round hole ... :-\ ::)
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby marvin8 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:52 am

willie wrote:
windwalker wrote:
willie wrote:I'm curious as to why not?
Didn't feel it was an honest inquiry and would only invite more questions


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA5-Q6wALTg

Yeah, I agree, I also did not feel that the request was an honest one. Nice mantis!
Original yang? LOL!

Nice video. Well, it is a honest, simple inquiry on videos and picture that are posted.

In the above video, both mantis players lead foot is turned inwards. So, is your opinion these are weak stances?

windwalker wrote: . . What Willie mentioned concerning stances and postitining has been shown to be time and time again true. In both cases the Taiji guy and the Wing Chun guy in fighting Xu, it was over before it started. I look at centering, weighting, among other things.

. . . Chris Chan, and his students if one looks at his stances and set ups compared to other wc styles they'er a little different, and are field tested...

. . . Plum flower mantis, has stances were the foot is turned in.

. . . The mantis is very fast, maybe faster then most would think possible.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby willie on Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:44 am

marvin8 wrote:Nice video. Well, it is a honest, simple inquiry on videos and picture that are posted.

In the above video, both mantis players lead foot is turned inwards. So, is your opinion these are weak stances?

Marvin I thought that I already explained myself quite well. Depending on the situation, I sometimes use a inward turned foot as well. I think that I already said that. It was more about the backwards leaning Stance that I don't like in combination with that inwards front foot.
I should have known better than even talk about this subject because of the complexity of trying to explain it online.
It appears that the stances in the Mantis Fighters are very strong. That is because they are loaded. Do you see how it starts to get complicated now? Some stances are loaded, some are not. Some stances allow a human to just walk casually, some do not. Some systems require an outward Force known as peng, some systems do not. There's far too many variables involved. An example of a loaded Stance with a inward pointing toe would be as if I was drawing a bow.
Last edited by willie on Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby marvin8 on Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:09 am

willie wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Nice video. Well, it is a honest, simple inquiry on videos and picture that are posted.

In the above video, both mantis players lead foot is turned inwards. So, is your opinion these are weak stances?

Marvin I thought that I already explained myself quite well. Depending on the situation, I sometimes use a inward turned foot as well. I think that I already said that. It was more about the backwards leaning Stance that I don't like in combination with that inwards front foot.
I should have known better than even talk about this subject because of the complexity of trying to explain it online.
It appears that the stances in the Mantis Fighters are very strong. That is because they are loaded. Do you see how it starts to get complicated now? Some stances are loaded, some are not. Some stances allow a human to just walk casually, some do not. Some systems require an outward Force known as peng, some systems do not. There's far too many variables involved. An example of a loaded Stance with a inward pointing toe would be as if I was drawing a bow.

Okay, thanks for explaining that. I remember you mentioned something about that, now. :)
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby marvin8 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:41 am

Analysis by Master Wong.

Master Wong
Published on Mar 25, 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOz9J0jCLOY

Master Wong
Streamed live on Mar 27, 2018

Wing Chun VS MMA Talk Q&A Master Wong
In this video Master Wong answers wing chun vs mma and wing chun vs street fight and all kinds of question in martial arts from MMA to wing chun and fitness:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8ad_9awCK4
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Re: Xu Xiao Dong is back vs Wing Chun

Postby RobP3 on Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:47 am

marvin8 wrote:Analysis by Master Wong.



Oh please, no.....
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