the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Xu looked like he was absorbing the WC guys punches in first melee and laughing.

I thought the WC guy was going to stand in stance and wait, like the TC guy but, to his credit, he got stuck in. Shame, it looked like his punches had virtually zero effect and he appeared to have no counter to the overhead right

Bao wrote:Why did he go so easy on the WC guy? He ended the "Tai Chi Master" very fast, but here he goes in give a few blows and back up without finishing him off. Comparing with the other match, it's pretty obvious that it's all set up .

Actually I disagree. It does not look set up.
Basically I think the MMA fighter had zero respect for the Tai Chi master. It's one of the things that I have been complaining about for a while, there's no damage being done And because there is no damage being done, then the MMA guy is just going to roll right over you. Because he is not being presented with anything to fear.

Bao wrote:

marvin8 wrote:Wei Lei (tai chi) showed very little fighting skill. The wing chun guy had more. "Go so easy on the WC guy?" No. Xu almost knocked out the wing chun guy at 1:05 and gave him a bloody nose.

As Middleway pointed out, the rule set here is very different. Or rather, here there was some rules in favour to the WC guy. When the first round begin, Xu doesn't go in with the mind-set to run over the WC guy, instead, he plays with him and is not scared to take a few punches in the face. It's obvious that the organiser wants a longer fight to please the audience. They both play along. Xu takes a few punches and the WC gy puts very little strength in his punches. If he tries to put some power in them, I don't know. I can't tell if the WC guy has more fighting skills than the "Tai Chi Master". Here I see none.

I see, now. Probably no ground and pound; hitting once down. However, the rules are the same for both fighters, in each fight.

It does not excuse the tai chi and wing chun players from not applying their CMA skills: balance, relaxation, neutralizing, bridging, sticking, trapping, pulling, CMA power generation, etc. (e.g., break structure, pull Xu's guard down, move to the side and punch).

willie wrote:Actually I disagree. It does not look set up.

I don’t say that it was completely set up. I say that Xu played with the WC guy and took it easy. He could probably have ended it just as fast as in the other match. ...if there was no agreement to give the audience value for their time and money, and if there were no rules that favored the WC guy. Just by the setting and watching the audience anyone with some knowledge can see that it’s not something hastily put together. Everything looks too much arranged. So it would be naive to think that the people who arranged this meeting would let anyone of them make it a fast fight. For this kind of events, there are always contracts written to make sure that the audience can have a show.

marvin8 wrote:It does not excuse the tai chi and wing chun players from not applying their CMA skills: balance, relaxation, neutralizing, bridging, sticking, trapping, pulling, CMA power generation, etc. (e.g., break structure, pull Xu's guard down, move to the side and punch).

I have no idea about who the WC guy was, but the Tai Chi guy is a self-proclaimed joke with no skills whatsoever. He had nothing to bring to the table.

Bao wrote:

marvin8 wrote:It does not excuse the tai chi and wing chun players from not applying their CMA skills: balance, relaxation, neutralizing, bridging, sticking, trapping, pulling, CMA power generation, etc. (e.g., break structure, pull Xu's guard down, move to the side and punch).

I have no idea about who the WC guy was, but the Tai Chi guy is a self-proclaimed joke with no skills whatsoever. He had nothing to bring to the table.

Today, there are several MMA clubs and fighters in China. Xu is not a ranked MMA fighter. Best P4P China Fighters, https://www.tapology.com/rankings/3010- ... a-fighters.

Per Xu. he is self taught. Excerpt from Kung fu experts next in line for MMA fighter who whipped tai chi master in just 10 seconds, http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/ ... r-who-beat:

South China Morning Post on Tuesday, 02 May, 2017 wrote:Xu, a trained kung fu free-combat sportsman who taught himself MMA, has claimed that traditional martial arts are outdated and only good for keeping in shape. In combat, free-style fighting or boxing was more practical, The Beijing News quoted him as saying on Monday.

Xu’s comments came after he took just 10 seconds to defeat tai chi master Wei Lei – who also calls himself Lei Lei – in a fight in Chengdu, Sichuan province, last week, reigniting debate over which approach is superior. Wei is a practitioner of the Yang style of tai chi, characterised by slow, steady movements.

Bao wrote:
I don’t say that it was completely set up. I say that Xu played with the WC guy and took it easy. He could probably have ended it .

Well, you may be right to some extent, I'm not sure. It is possible that the government themselves interceded and told him 2 make it look like a traditional martial artist is at least doing fairly well. Even that I doubt though. I heard that the government forced him to go apologize to the Chen family, I'm not exactly sure why though, because it was a Yang style master that he beat up.

GrahamB wrote:

windwalker wrote:So did the taiji guy, and still

In each it was over before it even started.

The mma/sanda guy could have ended it
at any point.

Once the WC guy found out his punching was ineffective
it was over. Of course there other wc guys who if they hit you, one tends to notice it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXc5yJ5hdn0

If people focused more on sparring ability not punching power then don't you think CMA wouldn't be in this mess?

We may not agree on somethings, but I definitely agree with this.

Fa Xing wrote:

GrahamB wrote:

windwalker wrote:So did the taiji guy, and still

In each it was over before it even started.

The mma/sanda guy could have ended it
at any point.


Once the WC guy found out his punching was ineffective
it was over. Of course there other wc guys who if they hit you, one tends to notice it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXc5yJ5hdn0

If people focused more on sparring ability not punching power then don't you think CMA wouldn't be in this mess?

We may not agree on somethings, but I definitely agree with this.

You both miss the point.

Having a knife that cant cut, makes it kind of useless, lots of time spent on sharpening it, to make it useful.

If your art is primarily a hitting art. One better know or have something that makes it effective.
The WC hit the guy with no effect. The weight difference that many seem to ignore also factors into this.

As far as Chris Chan, he had rep as a fighter back in the day, his students competed in the local venues of the time.
Some of his students in the 70s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCTzut4jqk&t=132s

I fought a Wing Chun guy once, twice my size, he couldn't stop a double-leg for the life of him. He also didn't take to kindly to the liver kick I gave him. LOL.

i know where yáll are coming from
but from what i understand, if your strikes have penetrative power
size difference should not matter

Fa Xing wrote:I fought a Wing Chun guy once, twice my size, he couldn't stop a double-leg for the life of him. He also didn't take to kindly to the liver kick I gave him. LOL.

Would you say the same about these guys


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfCTzut4jqk

would you ?

Chris Chan, their teacher
If any had questions about his style he answered them, not by talking about it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9LKPATIBPY

Hey Guys,

This is just an initial opinion, but I lean toward this being a bit of loose choreography mixed with non-full power punches. Punches that land! But not really meant to finish the opponent.

Too many little things that cause me to be skeptical.
Too many little things that make it look like some better than usual staging.
The Wing Chun guy looks to me like he does a shoulder roll out of the 1st throw.
Similar to the kind of roll I learned in my 1st aikido class.

Then the referee’s jump & roll after Xu’s over hand right? Come on. Plus a clear over hand right like that should have took knocked the lighter weight Wing Chun into a daze that lasted longer than it did. Certainly not Wing chun guy going over to his corner and raising his hands in victory and ready to fight.

A full power overhand right from a heavier opponent? That punch should have made him wonder “Where am I?”
Oh, and the uppercuts. One good uppercut from a heavier opponent can knock your block off. Or at least snap your head back strongly.
How many uppercuts does this lighter opponent take?

The clothing costume of the Wing Chun guy. His opponent is grabbing his costume and freely punching.
Not once does the Wing Chun guy even attempt to remove the grab advantage by removing his costume.

The knee kick (with shoes on!) near the end that doesn’t look full power meant to do damage. And Xu doesn’t look worried about it.

When 2 people engage, you can immediately tell if someone is stronger & slower than you.
The Wing Chun guy seems to not worry about going toe to toe with a bigger fighter.
I never felt worried for the wing chun guy.
That “oh shit” "he’s gonna get it" moment. That gut reaction I normally get for a fighter that is out sized & over matched.
My gut reaction instead was this is good staging.

Mind and body usually has an unconscious reaction to being punched and thrown by someone bigger than you. I didn’t see those unconscious signals from Wing Chun guy of…like…maybe I should run a bit and use my speed to stay away from power.

This is just my initial opinion, not challenging anyone else reaction to the fight.
But it’s just too many things that cause me to be skeptical of this fight.

Strange wrote:i know where yáll are coming from
but from what i understand, if your strikes have penetrative power
size difference should not matter

Chris, talks about that here...maybe some have missed it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXc5yJ5hdn0

Met Chris back in the day, had a high school friend who was his student.
My friend would later go on to compete in the ring, oddly enough having to fight
againts another friend I had in one of the local kick boxing school...My WC friend lost
I still remember his comment after the fight. "it felt like I couldn't move"

Chris, was a big proponent of what he called dynamic tension
Didn't agree with it back then, understand why I didn't agree with it now.

However the fight went, I read that the WC guy's team issued a 2 page statement of excuses for the loss, including being a southerner, having problems with Beijing's dry air. Something like his mouth hurt, lmao!