A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

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A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby marvin8 on Tue May 01, 2018 8:27 pm

Systema Vasiliev
Published on Apr 28, 2018

Mikhail Ryabko demonstrates work with catching the opponent off balance in a subtle way:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySp2-M-EbI4
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby klonk on Tue May 01, 2018 8:45 pm

Well...okay, but timing the step is a thing you do in any martial art I have ever looked into, including Western fencing, so I am not sure how much of a subtlety it is.

Uke (I am not sure of the Russian term, I mean the poor fellow getting pushed all around in the demo) seems quite relaxed about the whole thing. If he did not get it beforehand he surely deserves it now:

Image
Last edited by klonk on Tue May 01, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Bao on Wed May 02, 2018 2:34 am

Yup, catching, re-directing and add movement to a momentum, sometimes that's all there is and what is necessary. It can look so simple and impressive that many teachers claim that they do it with "Qi". ;)
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby windwalker on Wed May 02, 2018 2:53 am

Bao wrote:Yup, catching, re-directing and add movement to a momentum, sometimes that's all there is and what is necessary. It can look so simple and impressive that many teachers claim that they do it with "Qi". ;)


Its not so simple

The explanation given does not really explain why the student goes so far, nor why his whole body is affected.
I bet for most trying this the result would not be the same nor as impressive.

Whats up with the concern about what others claim to do, or how they explain it on a topic that's not about them...Is it a problem?
Not really an issue for me, don't quite get why so many feel the need to include it in what ever the topic happens to be.
Last edited by windwalker on Wed May 02, 2018 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby windwalker on Wed May 02, 2018 4:04 am

Watch it again closely. at each time he's leaning into the student before he makes contact.

His COG is already under the student allowing for easy displacement...How this is done is the "trick" which is not explained, another one is offred instead
that might provide a partial answer for some, until they try it expecting the same results.

its not so simple

Image
The gravity line passes through the base of support if balance is adequate


In practice, the position of the line of gravity is of major interest to the clinician, with the exact centre of gravity being of less concern. The centre of gravity in fact varies according to the position of the arms and of flexion of the trunk, and under normal circumstances, it is situated slightly in front of the sacrum [2], but the line of gravity represents the area of reaction with the ground and allows analysis of balance to be made

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3175916/
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Bao on Wed May 02, 2018 5:23 am

windwalker wrote:
Bao wrote:Yup, catching, re-directing and add movement to a momentum, sometimes that's all there is and what is necessary. It can look so simple and impressive that many teachers claim that they do it with "Qi". ;)


Its not so simple
...


Didn't say it was. I said that it looks simple. Even if the main idea, or the main method, is indeed very simple, It's also about timing, following, leverage, angle of pressure and more. To make something look simplistic or effortless is in itself a skill.

I bet for most trying this the result would not be the same nor as impressive....


"Most people" haven't practiced these methods enough so it can look natural. "Anyone" could not make it, but I could certainly make it look just as good and anyone of my old classmates could. None of us would claim to use anything else than what I wrote above. No yi, no qi, no nothing else than a "simple" play with momentum and physics. But I guess, people just won´t accept how easy and simplistic certain things mostly are.

Whats up with the concern about what others claim to do, or how they explain it on a topic that's not about them...Is it a problem?


It is a problem for a person who see someone speaking about things like "qi" and want to learn how to use "qi", but discovers that what the teacher can teach is something else. He may feel fooled and stop paying. It´s more easy to get people if you mystify things. But it´s harder to keep them. If you are honest about what you do or teach, it´s sometimes harder to get students, but it´s easier to keep them. I don´t respect teachers who are deceptive or use tricks to get students. They might not care or not see it as a problem, but it´s very easy to get a bad reputation and it´s very hard to clean it of. So yes, it can absolutely be a problem, both for those who don´t teach what they promise and those who discovers that they don´t get what they think they are paying for.
Last edited by Bao on Wed May 02, 2018 5:37 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Overlord on Wed May 02, 2018 5:49 am

;D
Last edited by Overlord on Wed May 02, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby C.J.W. on Wed May 02, 2018 7:32 am

When you are built like a silverback gorilla and outweighs your opponent by about 100 pounds, how hard is it to push him around? ;)

Having said that, I can still see some interesting body mechanics at play. At 1:46, he is basically using Yang style's brush knee twist step to throw the opponent down. ;D

IMO, he relies a little too much on his arms for power, but there's definitely skill involved rather than just brute force.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Steve James on Wed May 02, 2018 10:50 am

Imo, it's not a trick. It may be simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy. "Push when the opponent is off-balance" is a really simple idea. There's always going to be a point in one's step where one is more unbalanced than another. I would say that Ryabko's ability to listen is excellent.

The interesting thing to me is the comparison to tcc ideas. Catching the opponent while he is "double weighted" doesn't necessarily mean while he has both feet on the ground. It's also a lot like leading a dancing partner: i.e., making her go where you plan. I know that sounds funny, but maybe tango dancers understand.:)
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Tiga Pukul on Mon May 07, 2018 1:45 am

Funny that you mention Tango, when I started Tango course I was blown away by the similarities to the Martial Art I do and the details of Tango.
Things like timing (using also half-beat and quarter-beat), controlling your opponent/Partner by clearly indicating direction, having the correct distance to your opponent, where to put your balance in the footwork, direction of shoulders, where to put pressure, controlling the distance etc.etc.

The only thing that confused me was that the goal was for my dance-partner to maintain balance instead of losing it :D :D
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby RobP3 on Mon May 07, 2018 6:30 am

Mikhail often references dancing, especially in terms of following/leading and also the light footwork. Of course, Russian arts often reference Cosscak dance too. The general connection is something I've personally been exploring with various dance groups.
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Re: A Simple Trick — Mikhail Ryabko

Postby Steve James on Mon May 07, 2018 6:45 am

Yep, in Tango, the woman needs great sensitivity. Otoh, it's a game. She also wants to impose her will. I.e., she let's you turn her, but she let's you know that she's letting you. However, that's much easier if you move her at specific balance points. It's impossible to explain in words.

In the very beginning, males danced the Tango together. It was a competition for females who were in short supply. Essentially, it was a type of ritualized fight, sometimes done with razors (so I've been told." The ganchas and sentadas that are usually associated with what the female partner's work, are just like kicks. It's easy to see in Tango "cayengue" for ex. But, all that's high brow stuff now. Tango was a brothel dance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eomGV4buJzM
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