Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Wed May 09, 2018 11:43 am

Yugen wrote:
willie wrote:
jaime_g wrote:So you dont work on the first movement of every taichi form?

Jamie, I don't think that you realize the scope of the instruction that I received. So I will fill you in just a little bit. There was a brown belt under a National kickboxing champion who I met in MMA, who was also a purple belt. He came back to class telling real stories after getting his ass handed to him over and over and over again by some strange, very secretive, Tai Chi Master. That teacher is my sifu. What you are seeing in those videos is pretty much worthless for fighting. Sure it should be entertained as beginner stuff only.


All these secretive Internal Master's and their fighting abilities.... yet where are they? What's their fight record? Why so secret...
Mention someone like Tim Cartmell, with a verifiable fight record and you hear... "he doesn't move with 6H", "he does basic stuff"

Who are the MMA fighters with records that you Sifu has taught?

As to the video content being worthless for fighting... well of course it is! The purpose is to teach basics of body connection... not to raise your arms with your spindle shoulder muscles, but to use the whole body. To develop a connected body.. A guy training fighting with a connected body will probably do better than one with not... depends on a lot of other factors too. Note, Roy is teaching white belts in that video..

I play with dantian rotation and arm connection to thwart guys trying to sweep me with spider guard... it's effective... of course it's sparring with defined rules, so it's limited in scope..

Hi, the reason why they're secret is because they're greedy. The more people that know the truth of these arts, so less important that they become. Do you like how honest I am? As far as a fighting record? no that guy did not have a fighting record. the guy that taught him was a national champion. My teacher did not train any MMA fighters. Although he did defeat some MMA practitioners, That's different. Where is he now? Well I think he's 71 years old or close to it. Do you want him to jump in the ring or in the octagon? You see I don't go along with all the mainstream BS. And I couldn't care less. A connected body? Do you even understand what that means? Can I see a video of your taichi or internal Arts? I'm getting tired of all the BS here.
Last edited by willie on Wed May 09, 2018 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby Bao on Wed May 09, 2018 12:48 pm

willie wrote: I feel that it is very misleading as it suggests that that is the type of reaction that anyone that he applies it on would have . Knowing that none of that stuff works on me, it's hard to sit back, open up a box of popcorn and enjoy the show.


Why should something be applicable to everyone? Li Yaxuan expressed it well by saying that fighting is like being a doctor. Every patient needs a different treatment, some you can treat with medicine, some with exercises and others need operations. For fighting, different methods work differently on different people. There is no one size fits all. Therefore it's good to practice different kind of methods, and especially learning basic things about structure manipulation. But I think you don't have the interest to learn certain things, or rather not anything beyond visually powerful fajin, and your attitude gives me a feeling that you would be a terrible practicing partner that would only try to prove to others that their stuff doesn't work. But of course, I might be wrong... :P

Mention someone like Tim Cartmell, with a verifiable fight record and you hear... "he doesn't move with 6H", "he does basic stuff"


From what I have seen, moves very good and much better than most MMA fighters out there. He always moves in a very coordinated and well rooted manner. He doesn't jump around, stay focused and centered, but is still very fast.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Wed May 09, 2018 1:19 pm

Bao wrote:
willie wrote: I feel that it is very misleading as it suggests that that is the type of reaction that anyone that he applies it on would have . Knowing that none of that stuff works on me, it's hard to sit back, open up a box of popcorn and enjoy the show.


Why should something be applicable to everyone? Li Yaxuan expressed it well by saying that fighting is like being a doctor. Every patient needs a different treatment, some you can treat with medicine, some with exercises and others need operations. For fighting, different methods work differently on different people. There is no one size fits all. Therefore it's good to practice different kind of methods, and especially learning basic things about structure manipulation. But I think you don't have the interest to learn certain things, or rather not anything beyond visually powerful fajin, and your attitude gives me a feeling that you would be a terrible practicing partner that would only try to prove to others that their stuff doesn't work. But of course, I might be wrong... :P

Mention someone like Tim Cartmell, with a verifiable fight record and you hear... "he doesn't move with 6H", "he does basic stuff"


From what I have seen, moves very good and much better than most MMA fighters out there. He always moves in a very coordinated and well rooted manner. He doesn't jump around, stay focused and centered, but is still very fast.

You're not just a little bit wrong, you are 100% wrong. I am in excellent training partner and every single martial artist that I have ever met thinks very highly of me as a training partner. And that also includes MMA and my old karate partners . As far as what you think about my only Interest being high power fajin you are also 100% totally incorrect.
But now that I think about it, maybe your idea of a ideal training partner is just somebody who is subservient? I'm not that guy. In fact, when I met my sifu I asked him how much he wanted per hour. After he told me how much, which is a lot of money. I told him, even though he was in his sixties, if he wants the money, he has to be able to prove it. There is no question in my mind who's who and what's what
Last edited by willie on Wed May 09, 2018 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Wed May 09, 2018 6:03 pm

OMG!
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby windwalker on Wed May 09, 2018 7:56 pm

" There's something happen here, what it is an't exactly clear."

There's bad lines being drawn, no body is right if everybody's wrong"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjSpO2B6G4s
Last edited by windwalker on Wed May 09, 2018 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby everything on Wed May 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Only *I* (whomever I is: pretty much everyone here haha) have the correct answer, passed down by famous teacher X or some old guy nobody knows.

Your shit is so obviously incorrect. Who is your teacher? Must be from that watered down style.

That is a cool story bro. But that wouldn't work on ME. Also, you haven't shown it in the ring against 100s of top opponents. Must be useless.

Well ... my shit is too dangerous for that.

Show me a video.

You have to feel it, not watch a video.

Meh. "Qi" isn't real. However, I do "dantian rotation" and you can clearly see that. It's obviously this biomechanical blah blah blah but you need to do 30 years of silk reeling and acquire the shenfa.

Blah blah blah. It's always the same bullshit.

May I suggest if you EVER use one of the above arguments, before you do it, just don't do it.
Last edited by everything on Wed May 09, 2018 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby littlepanda on Wed May 09, 2018 9:35 pm

here's another video where Roy is uke


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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby Tom on Wed May 09, 2018 10:49 pm

littlepanda wrote:here's another video where Roy is uke




Here's aiki age with an uke at the other end of the size spectrum, Scott Burke, 6'5", 250 lbs., done by Dan Harden from seiza. Dan and Roy trained Daito Ryu Kodokai together under Kiyama Hayawo.

Image
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Thu May 10, 2018 7:02 am

Tom wrote:
littlepanda wrote:here's another video where Roy is uke




Here's aiki age with an uke at the other end of the size spectrum, Scott Burke, 6'5", 250 lbs., done by Dan Harden from seiza. Dan and Roy trained Daito Ryu Kodokai together under Kiyama Hayawo.

Image

Hi Tom. What is the point of this post? What is the point of referring to Dan's opponents size, when Dan himself isn't much smaller than him anyways. That would be the same as a 140 lb guy moving around another 140 lb guy.
I remember when this post came up. I said that it would not work against me. I'm not sure if you remember what I said to Dan. "I will just power down". Dan's reply was, "it won't work if someone Powers down".
Last edited by willie on Thu May 10, 2018 7:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby Yugen on Thu May 10, 2018 1:41 pm

willie wrote:I said that it would not work against me. I'm not sure if you remember what I said to Dan. "I will just power down". Dan's reply was, "it won't work if someone Powers down".


Willie,
sigh... the whole point constantly being made is it's not an exercise for competition. It's an exercise to demonstrate and train connection. In the pictures Dan is not launching the guy using his tiny shoulder muscles, it's coming from Dantian.

If you power down, you're just not being a good training partner in this type of JMA training.
It'd be like being an Uke in Judo and shutting down your opponent's throw attempt... You don't! you take Ukemi so they can learn.

Were you on the teachers team in Rugby?
Last edited by Yugen on Thu May 10, 2018 1:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Thu May 10, 2018 2:07 pm

Yugen wrote:
willie wrote:I said that it would not work against me. I'm not sure if you remember what I said to Dan. "I will just power down". Dan's reply was, "it won't work if someone Powers down".


Willie,
sigh... the whole point constantly being made is it's not an exercise for competition. It's an exercise to demonstrate and train connection. In the pictures Dan is not launching the guy using his tiny shoulder muscles, it's coming from Dantian.

If you power down, you're just not being a good training partner in this type of JMA training.
It'd be like being an Uke in Judo and shutting down your opponent's throw attempt... You don't! you take Ukemi so they can learn.

Were you on the teachers team in Rugby?

Actually, no, I don't see it coming from the dantian.
I'm not sure why you're saying Sigh either? But hey to each his own LOL!
My point is in contrast to what Jamie said. He said beautiful work and shows Dantian rotation. I however, am not impressed. I'm not saying that Roy isn't a good martial artist, because I don't even know him. But if I didn't like the video, then I don't like the video. I wouldn't waste my time with that stuff there's better things to work on
Last edited by willie on Thu May 10, 2018 2:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby C.J.W. on Thu May 10, 2018 2:37 pm

I believe that wrist grabbing exercises in DR are meant to be used as a form of "internal weight training" in which the partner provides steady resistance and allows the doer to develop structure, connection skills, and learn how to not tense up when under physical pressure. Removing the resistance would be akin to bench pressing an imaginary barbell and yield no result.

Once you've developed structure and connection skills, the next level of training, IMO, should follow the Chinese paradigm (like PH) that teaches you how to constantly neutralize the partner's effort to connect with and unbalance you while trying to do the same to him (i.e., doing counter-aiki back and forth to each other in Japanese terms). That's where "powering down" may come into play.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Thu May 10, 2018 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby jaime_g on Thu May 10, 2018 2:40 pm

Actually, no, I don't see it coming from the dantian


0:37 and 1:13 in Roy's video
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby Yugen on Fri May 11, 2018 9:13 am

willie wrote:Actually, no, I don't see it coming from the dantian.


Ah... ok fair enough, I guess I missed that in your critique.. My "sigh" was cause you were saying "that won't work on me..", to which my reply is "of course not because the drill isn't a fighting application, it's just a cooperative drill" ... hence, to me it was like your a grown man celebrating your smashing rugby victory over the kids! ;D
Last edited by Yugen on Fri May 11, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roy Goldberg doing Aiki age

Postby willie on Fri May 11, 2018 9:13 am

C.J.W. wrote:
Once you've developed structure and connection skills, the next level of training, IMO, should follow the Chinese paradigm (like PH) that teaches you how to constantly neutralize the partner's effort to connect with and unbalance you while trying to do the same to him (i.e., doing counter-aiki back and forth to each other in Japanese terms). That's where "powering down" may come into play.

While constantly neutralizing in Push Hands is certainly important, we cannot be foolish enough to believe that it is the Pinnacle or paradigm of the Chinese Arts.
I will give you a hint from a true event.
My teacher trained in Korea and Muay Thai in Thailand. Later, he met master lu ping. My teacher was only interested in training with the best martial artist that were available. He did not play around. Lu ping was the featured article in kung fu magazine at that time. So my teacher went to go meet him. Upon meeting him. Lu ping ask my teacher about his previous training. And asked him to demonstrate is most powerful material. After evaluating my teacher's performance, lu ping insisted that he could "triple my teachers power."
At that time and still even today that statement does not make much sense to people in Tai Chi.

Powering down or dumping energy is a term that I got from my first Yang style teacher. It is very effective. Almost nothing works as it should against it.
As martial artist get better and better they start to be able to blend what "is" with their Technical Training. They are going strictly by feel and taking what was presented to them and changing what was presented to them into a technique. So, powering down addresses that issue by offering a highly-skilled technician nothing to work with.
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