Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby Appledog on Sun May 20, 2018 8:56 am

willie wrote:Hi Cady, I think that Bao is much closer to the correct interpretation.
I was taught by my first Yang style teacher that that act of non doing is simply realizing that the properties or a natural state of something will automatically solve the problem in many cases. If you evaluate the natural condition of a young tree branch, the tree branch has a quality known as flexibility or pliability. In short it bends to the force and is unharmed. The same as if a blade of grass stands up to a hurricane and survives unarmed. It is also an act of no-mind and not being emotionally involved in the situation, Only the natural Properties or qualities. It has really nothing to do with what Adam is doing or the other videos that windwalker so kindly provided.


Yes Bao's is more correct and your teacher has a great way of explaining it. What the term means originally is not that there is an absence of doing anything but that due to the amount of work already done in order to get to the 'correct state' the situation can resolve itself. This is indeed like ziran, or shizentai, 'rooted', etc. It's a wu-wei in the sense that there is nothing left to be done.

I dunno I just find it funny that so few people really understand this and adopt the wet-noodle approach, or take it to mean effort of any kind is bad. It does kind of sound like "work is bad," I guess, if you are unaware of it's meaning in context.

Disclaimer, I didn't really read the whole thread.

Edit: Just watched the Mizner video in the OP and I had to laugh. I loved his "lean" application (which looks like, but is not, a head-butt). That is exactly wu-wei. But caution the real term is "wei wu wei", obviously Mizner is doing something here, but the choice of what he is going to do had been removed somewhat; he is just using his natural posture against his opponent's. He explains this very well, that his inner state makes his opponent's inner state very uncomfortable.

Not sure who Mizner studied with but I like his work and I think he has the right stuff. "New partner... go!" such important words.
Last edited by Appledog on Sun May 20, 2018 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby willie on Sun May 20, 2018 9:48 am

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:Hi Cady, I think that Bao is much closer to the correct interpretation.
I was taught by my first Yang style teacher that that act of non doing is simply realizing that the properties or a natural state of something will automatically solve the problem in many cases. If you evaluate the natural condition of a young tree branch, the tree branch has a quality known as flexibility or pliability. In short it bends to the force and is unharmed. The same as if a blade of grass stands up to a hurricane and survives unarmed. It is also an act of no-mind and not being emotionally involved in the situation, Only the natural Properties or qualities. It has really nothing to do with what Adam is doing or the other videos that windwalker so kindly provided.


Yes Bao's is more correct and your teacher has a great way of explaining it. What the term means originally is not that there is an absence of doing anything but that due to the amount of work already done in order to get to the 'correct state' the situation can resolve itself. This is indeed like ziran, or shizentai, 'rooted', etc. It's a wu-wei in the sense that there is nothing left to be done.

I dunno I just find it funny that so few people really understand this and adopt the wet-noodle approach, or take it to mean effort of any kind is bad. It does kind of sound like "work is bad," I guess, if you are unaware of it's meaning in context.

Disclaimer, I didn't really read the whole thread.

Edit: Just watched the Mizner video in the OP and I had to laugh. I loved his "lean" application (which looks like, but is not, a head-butt). That is exactly wu-wei. But caution the real term is "wei wu wei", obviously Mizner is doing something here, but the choice of what he is going to do had been removed somewhat; he is just using his natural posture against his opponent's. He explains this very well, that his inner state makes his opponent's inner state very uncomfortable.

Not sure who Mizner studied with but I like his work and I think he has the right stuff. "New partner... go!" such important words.

Hi Apple Dog, yes Adam has skill, but I feel that his opponents are tanking a bit in his videos. That may get him more views amongst people who don't understand what they're looking at, but for me it's seen is a big negative.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby wayne hansen on Sun May 20, 2018 10:36 am

Mind no mind
Boxing no boxing

Sun lu tang
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby oragami_itto on Sun May 20, 2018 12:10 pm

Appledog wrote:Not sure who Mizner studied with but I like his work and I think he has the right stuff. "New partner... go!" such important words.


From his website bio,

https://discovertaiji.com/en/adam-mizner_66.html wrote:Adam Mizner has had 7 primary teachers of Yang Style Tai Chi from the Huang Sheng Shyan and Yang Shou Hou lineages, and is adept in various forms of meditation, which also plays a major role in his approach to the practice and the teaching of Tai Chi Chuan and Nei Gong. Adam Mizner is a 7th generation Yang style Tai Chi Chuan teacher, and transmits the outer system and inner technologies of these systems in a pure and direct way.


He also calls Liang De Hua his kung fu brother.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Sun May 20, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby willie on Sun May 20, 2018 8:05 pm

oragami_itto wrote:Adam Mizner is a 7th generation Yang style Tai Chi Chuan teacher, and transmits the outer system and inner technologies of these systems in a pure and direct way.
.

Pure?
I'm pretty sure that it has tong long and white crane in it?
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby xian89 on Mon May 21, 2018 4:15 am

Adam teaches the Huang system, yet when he demonstrates in his videos he uses the Yang Shao Hou material (that he got from Liang De Hua). Keeping the Yang Shao Hou stuff away from students can be a “pure and direct” way of honestly teaching students what they are ready for. Or it may be a way of knowingly keeping students from developing too much in Adam’s own direction and level (whatever that may be).
From what I’ve heard from workshop attendees that are fellow students, Adam doesn’t do demonstrations with people who has some sensitivity and connection - unless they are his own students and know how to be cooperative.
Based on that I am inclined to think that Adam is very concerned about appearing very skilled. So I doubt that he is entirely “pure and direct” about what he is doing or transmitting it. And if that is the case, I wonder if he can truly embody a Wuwei state.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby Rhen on Mon May 21, 2018 7:34 am

who did adam bai shi ceremony with? otherwise he ain't 7th generation yang.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby Appledog on Mon May 21, 2018 7:51 am

willie wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Adam Mizner is a 7th generation Yang style Tai Chi Chuan teacher, and transmits the outer system and inner technologies of these systems in a pure and direct way.
.

Pure?
I'm pretty sure that it has tong long and white crane in it?


yeah pretty much.

But why is that important? If the white crane stuff was taken out and replaced with (whatever it could be replaced with) out of the sun/chen/yang/wu syllabus (lets be inclusive shall we) what would that be and how would it be different?
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby willie on Mon May 21, 2018 9:29 am

Appledog wrote:
willie wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Adam Mizner is a 7th generation Yang style Tai Chi Chuan teacher, and transmits the outer system and inner technologies of these systems in a pure and direct way.
.

Pure?
I'm pretty sure that it has tong long and white crane in it?


yeah pretty much.

But why is that important? If the white crane stuff was taken out and replaced with (whatever it could be replaced with) out of the sun/chen/yang/wu syllabus (lets be inclusive shall we) what would that be and how would it be different?

Hi Apple Dog. I think that what is important here is honesty. If someone makes a public statement in their biography it should be 100% accurate. I'm not saying that it isn't accurate but from what I understood it appears that he had other influences and that is not a pure Yang Style. If there is even such a thing, which I doubt . To me it's no big deal. I am not a purist and I don't want to be. As a matter of fact at the last WHJ seminar during Push Hands it went to the ground so I submitted one of his senior students with jiu-jitsu. Is that frowned upon? probably. It is what it is man.
Last edited by willie on Mon May 21, 2018 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby wayne hansen on Mon May 21, 2018 11:27 am

I have never seen Adam demo any of Huangs white crane or discuss it
I think you will find his hard style is SPM from his first teacher Henry Sue
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Re: Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

Postby Rhen on Wed May 23, 2018 3:58 am

WOO WAY would of been a better title and less false advertising.
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