Interesting take on Huangs 5

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Thu May 31, 2018 8:41 pm

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:35 pm

Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:06 am

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/6Zuw-tppKd8


The arm swinging moves... I can appreciate the focus on relaxation, but the body was very little involved. I liked his variations on the elbow rotation and the arms hanging down close to the floor exercises though.

7 point push from another viewpoint
https://www.facebook.com/mikemichaelsta ... 231568036/


This second vid, very good, but sometimes he withdraws his body too much and seem to create unnecessary space between them. The "attacker" should make more pronounced movements push more further, than he would have more to work with. Watched a few other vids, some of them very nice. But I don't see the point in this kind of push hands, they don't try to push each other just circling their hands horizontally in the space between them.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6322
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:17 pm

I don't do these exercises anything like these people I am just posting them for the Adam and Sam tam followers

https://youtu.be/5qHPOYCMI7A
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:48 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I don't do these exercises anything like these people I am just posting them for the Adam and Sam tam followers


Ah! :D
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6322
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:06 pm

This puts some of his ideas in context. He talks about elastic force
I think a better way of looking at it would be "restoring force"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCw2BC59GGA


This teacher uses what we call restoring force he explains it using traditional verbiage
basically its the interchange of positions between the mind and body.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7T7jTPK9Wg
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 6657
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:26 pm

Another interesting take on Huangs 5
This is the guy in thr 99% clip
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CqyyNn56lGM
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby Giles on Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:47 am

While we're at it, here's my current take on Huang's Loosening Exercise no. 1 (or no. 3 in some sets, as it seems).

This version is intended as a reference for my students to emphasise relaxing of the kua/hips/lower back as the initiation for the rest of the movement. Which means a brief 'chain reaction' sequence from hips -> back -> shoulder blades -> shoulders -> elbows -> hands, letting gravity take each element naturally and inducing a slight stretch in the spine and surrounding tissues. Also downwards through the leg into the receiving foot. This isn't always how I do my personal practice, I have made the sequence more explicit here. And I intentionally shift the weight more strongly into the one or other foot than is normally taught or demonstrated by people in Huang's line. (I'm not in this line).



..............................................................................................................................

And this following exercise is No. 2 of the 'Tai Chi Tsao' from the Ma Tsun Kuen style of tai chi (a school of which I was a member for quite a few years and which has had a strong influence on me). I'm posting this here because it's pretty obviously of the same original provenance as Huang's Loosening Exercise no. 3, although with some significant differences in focus, mechanics and concept. Hence also a 'take' on one of the Loosenings, if you will. Also with intentional external weight-shifting from foot to foot, in contrast to Huang's approach.
(Since I'm no longer a member of the Ma Tsun Kuen school, this demonstration shouldn't be regarded as an official version of the exercise).



You can ignore the German numberings of the exercises ("Basisübungen 4 + 3"), that's only for internal school use.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Huajing
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby charles on Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:33 am

Giles wrote:And this following exercise is No. 2 of the 'Tai Chi Tsao' from the Ma Tsun Kuen style of tai chi


Not a criticism, just an observation.

It find it interesting that you start this exercise by lifting the shoulder, rather than the hand. Also, in contrast to sinking/lowering the shoulder by contracting the muscles of the rib cage, which reinforces lifting with the hand. A different body mechanics and different intent.
charles
Wuji
 
Posts: 1411
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:01 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby Giles on Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:32 am

Hi Charles,
Thanks for your comments. What’s going on in this second exercise is harder to see (or indeed to render visually explicit) than in the other one I posted. The initiation for the rising arm and hand actually comes from a small sinking /relaxing impulse in the kua/hips at each moment when the feet pass through the 50/50 weight distribution and simultaneously the lower arm has sunk back down to a brief moment when it hangs off the shoulder like a chain. It’s only a fraction of a second: when the kua/hips sink as mentioned above, this extends the lower arm just a little further downward through the fingertips (and also the shoulder and ribs sink just a little) and this further downward extension immediately turns into the start of a forward and upward movement of the arm. Actually all part of a circle, but those are some details of that particular moment. As the arm rises, the forearm and hand are initially ‘hanging’ from the elbow joint, extending into (and mentally beyond) the fingertips; the hand is indeed initially not rising and only ‘separates’ itself from the rest of the arm as the shoulder and elbow begin to sink more externally. So I'm not actually lifting the shoulder as the initiator, it comes from lower down. The shoulder should be relaxed at all times, not actively lifting up. It could well be, however, that my shoulders are too tense in this video, and that the very first move was indeed a shoulder lift. Oops. Too much computer/mouse work at that time, and still recovering from a ‘frozen shoulder’ on one side. Oh yeah, and the dog ate my homework. ;D

When doing other exercises and applications I usually endeavour to have fingertips or thumb basal joint at the lead points for a rising of the arm while shoulder and hips simultaneously sink (just a little). This exercise is different. There are other things/ideas going on as well, but I hope I have addressed your remarks.
I’m not familiar enough with the Huang Loosening no. 3 to know whether the ‘inner blueprint’ of that movement is fairly similar or very different. Of course, there are various ways of connecting and emphasising within the one exercise.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
Giles
Huajing
 
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:19 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:30 pm

I don't see any lifting of the shoulder in 2
In 1/3 I do see the elbows being lifted thus raising the shoulder however this is the way it is done these days
Where dose your 37 come from as it does not seem to be Huangs
I don't know Ma is there any film of his students doing his exercises
What is the English translation of the name of his exercises
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby C.J.W. on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:06 pm

I was told and shown by my White Crane teacher that the inspiration for Huang's exercises mostly came from WC, especially the first loosening exercise and the 7-point-push. Huang changed a few things around to make them appear more Taiji-like, but essentially they are still WC. The 7-point-push movement was originally meant to develop the body's intuitive response to neutralize/deflect/block and strike at the same time with the fingers, elbows, and shoulders.

Here's a clip of him taken from a Taiwanese TV show which featured active centenarians from two years ago. At 2:07 he casually demonstrates the moves I was referring to. The student in the back shows a more complete version of it.



P.S. The TV crew got his birth year wrong. He was 101, not 106.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
C.J.W.
Wuji
 
Posts: 1663
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 am

Re: Interesting take on Huangs 5

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:27 pm

I couldn't get that clip to play
I would love to see some WC guys doing the 7 point push
The way most tai chi guys do it today it seems to have gone a little astray
Yes I think he borrowed heavily from WC even though I have learned several of the exercises in tai chi sets that predate Huangs 5
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3146
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm


Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests