the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

C.J.W. wrote:Anyways, regarding the video. Your are definitely correct in saying that there are similarities between Taiji and boxing in terms of power generation -- heck, even a good baseball swing shares common ground with Taiji.

In this case, though, I'm more impressed with the DIFFERENCES the teacher shows, namely how to generate power against steady resistance and the multi-directional (6-harmony) nature of his strike. Those are the things average boxers don't do, at least from what I've seen.

Umm ... I replied after having watched the clip hours earlier. My earlier response still stands, in the end.

However, I forgot that Mark is showing: depending on which direction the feeder pushes, Mark counters with a particular punch—which is more than practicing "how to generate power against steady resistance and the multi-directional (6-harmony)."

Can you or anyone elaborate on what principle and differences you see Mark showing in the video?

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/7jIB3B1ygxs

This is better. However, there is more to holding pads than acting as a moving punching bag. High level pad holders (e.g., former champions) train principles, strategies,techniques, timing, etc. into the subconscious by feeding the partner realistic attacks and counters at the right moment.

C.J.W. wrote:I like what this Australian teacher is showing here -- and his clips in general -- a lot. This is the sort of innovative thinking Taiji people need if they wish to apply Taiji in the ring, rather than training Sanda on the side and breaking it out when push comes to shoves like some of the Chenjiagou guys are doing.

九大要論
一、
來散之必有其統也，分之必有其合也，以故天壤間四面八方，紛紛者各有所屬，千頭萬緒，攘攘者自有其源。蓋一本散為萬殊，而萬殊鹹歸於一本，事有必 然者。且武事之論，亦甚繁矣。而要之，千變萬變，無往非勢，即無往非氣，勢雖不類，而氣歸於一。

CJW

With CM, you don’t just interpret this passage as Unity but also the other way around Separation/ isolation.
分、合。

Cheers.

marvin8 wrote:

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/7jIB3B1ygxs

This is better. However, there is more to holding pads than acting as a moving punching bag. High level pad holders (e.g., former champions) train principles, strategies,techniques, timing, etc. into the subconscious by feeding the partner realistic attacks and counters at the right moment.

True that!
BTW, that is one of my teachers over here in Taiwan (Hulei TJQ), and the holding of pads with him is not really easy for us, but then, we are no former champions!

Overlord wrote:CJW

With CM, you don’t just interpret this passage as Unity but also the other way around Separation/ isolation.
分、合。

Cheers.

分合 is actually a very important concept in the line of Bagua I do. My Bagua teacher would often refer to his art as 分合八卦。

I am by no means saying that what this Taiji teacher does is perfect or that it is also representative of my own practice. I just think it's a great effort and has good potential in terms of adapting Taiji for competitive ring fighting.

wayne hansen wrote:https://www.facebook.com/groups/214522499092029/permalink/290364801507798/

Yup, that’s the way it should be done, relaxing the whole way into the target. No tensing up.

Yes I always laugh when people talk about tensing up at the point of impact
That's when I relax more

wayne hansen wrote:Yes I always laugh when people talk about tensing up at the point of impact
That's when I relax more

Exactly

To be able to really relax into the target, I need to relax even more when I reach the target, that’s absolutely my experience as well. People who haven’t tried or been guided through this process mostly don’t believe in it. I guess you just need to experience yourself what kind of strong, penetrative power you can actually develop by working on tai chi methods focused on just being song.

Do you guys really relax your whole hand/fist/ wrist when you punch? I would be interested to see that.

I just watched that clip - the wrist isn't relaxed and the hand has some tension to maintain its shape

Structure and relaxation aren't mutually exclusive things
In fact true structure only appears when realaxiation is paramount

RobP3 wrote:Do you guys really relax your whole hand/fist/ wrist when you punch?

Of course!

wayne hansen wrote:In fact true structure only appears when realaxiation is paramount

+1

Exactly!

The body wants to stretch and make itself upright. This is how the body, with all of its muscles and nervous system, works all by itself when you relax and really let it work by itself.

wayne hansen wrote:Structure and relaxation aren't mutually exclusive things
In fact true structure only appears when realaxiation is paramount

A couple comments from a MMA forum on the subject.

Imagining you're shooting your fists out of a cannon, or throwing them like a baseball. Like your fists are just projectiles and not something you push out with arm strength.

When you're apexing (or impacting) it's important to have the muscles turned on in one direction, not both directions. Becoming tense at the moment of impact activates the muscles in both directions. "Apexing" is about having the right drivers on at the right time, the arm is pushing through the punch, the core is driving the shoulders around, the legs are driving the hips around... but there's no tension like there would be if you were making a muscle with your arm (pulling both directions).

Bao wrote:

RobP3 wrote:Do you guys really relax your whole hand/fist/ wrist when you punch?

Of course!

wayne hansen wrote:In fact true structure only appears when realaxiation is paramount

+1

Exactly!

The body wants to stretch and make itself upright. This is how the body, with all of its muscles and nervous system, works all by itself when you relax and really let it work by itself.

Have you ever hit anyone for real? Genuine question.