the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Really good video, especially like the comments about CR providing opportunities for people to test out their art!

As usual with a place like China it is really difficult to generalise or reach one conclusion because of the sheer diversity and size. Certainly the old story that proper TMA had died out on the mainland is wrong, lots of TCMA are alive and well in the mainland today.

I would say when it comes to taiji teachers the CR was bad for them, and several of the famous ones did suffer. For example, Wang Peisheng was sent down to the Yunnan countryside, Chen Xiaowang's father committed suicide by jumping into a well, and Cui Yishi (Yang Chengfu's disciple) was made to kneel on iron bars in the courtyard of his house by red guards. Also Zheng Jun (son of Zheng Wuqing, Zhaobao taiji master) had red guards posted outside his house to stop him practicing taiji.

Also even in Shanghai the xingyi teacher Liu Molin (Hebei style) had his hair cut into a 'Yinyang' hairstyle and then was beaten up while his hands were bound. Unable to take this kind of humiliation, he killed himself by jumping in the Huangpu river.

So I would be careful about downplaying the damage it did to TCMA and TCMA teachers. I think the bigger the city and the more famous the teacher, the more likely they would have been to suffer.

Thanks for the feedback!

Yea, I agree with you totally. I wasn't trying to downplay the damage done, only to provide counter-balance to all the rhetoric out there that none's left.

It's a sensitive topic, and one that is very hard to paint a full picture of.

Only if I had a dime for every time someone said that to me here in Taiwan!

I honestly think the notion that "real TCMA no longer exists in China" was also part of a propaganda by Chiang Kaishek's Nationalist government, implying that the essence of TCMA as well as other elements of traditional Chinese culture could only be found in Chinese communities untainted by Communism like, well, Taiwan.

While it's true that the cultural revolution did take a heavy toll on TCMA, it'd still be quite an exaggeration to claim that it was wiped out entirely.

As many of us know. TCMA is still alive and well all over China if you know where to look.

C.L.W - precisely and accurately said
Also noted - although Chinese Government at that time gave image of being highly centralized, local governments often ruled the roost

Those who did survive did by not being lucky, clever, not noticed, etc.

One way to "survive" was to become a part of the government... Political skills were thus useful for some (at least a sense of knowing which governments to join and which to avoid)...
Not being noticed was easier if you were not famous to begin with before the Cultural Revolution...

edededed wrote:Those who did survive did by not being lucky, clever, not noticed, etc.

One way to "survive" was to become a part of the government... Political skills were thus useful for some (at least a sense of knowing which governments to join and which to avoid)...
Not being noticed was easier if you were not famous to begin with before the Cultural Revolution...

A good example would be Wang Xiangzhai, who cleverly promoted his Yiquan and Pole-standing as health exercises as opposed to martial arts. It allowed him to continue teaching and spreading his art without being persecuted by the government.

Yes, true, the KMT propaganda was just that, propaganda.
On the other hand, after having met lots of mainland people within the official MA associations in the late 80s and 90s, I never would have thought about studying with anyone of those guys. Maybe Wushutiger can tell as more about the present situation in the official MA groups of PRC.
Gongfu must be found amongst the people, not really that easy, and without any connections, one could get really disappointed. Better study with a good teacher at home, than at a bad school in China!

The cultural direction changed so accordingly it just happened that the Cultural Revolution was the tool to get rid of the 3 old traditions and bring in the New Modern Era, which required the old to be destroyed like throwing the "proverbial baby out with the bathwater". ....No doubt that the dispossessed/the landless/the poor/the addicts/etc took it out on those who had property, position, social power, leverage, etc.

Those who did not know the previous value of cultural heritage did what they did best.......TMA, TCMA, etc were reformatted to meet the needs of the survivors but perhaps the afterthought was too late.
Even before dynastic downfall of the Qing, may Chinese studied abroad (including Japan) so having that new broadminded sphere of societal order, social intergrity, etc a change had to come by hook or by crook.

NOTE: Societal order and social integration are relative terms here vis a vis the peon/feudfal/dynastic view of the society of yore.

Revolution is never a Tea Party

Haven't read all the comments but from what I have been told TMAs definitely went underground which itself did a lot of damage.

I think it was a lot like GMO seeds which can be soaked in pesticides and chemicals and still survive replacing heirloom varities. Yes most heirloom varieties disappeared after millions of years but some of it has survived and is coming back thanks to the actions of a few.

As mentioned earlier Wang pei sheng was persecuted for i think 16 years. But when i asked a friend (who studied with him for many years) if this held back his training. She told me he found after a year or so he was pretty much left alone and had more time to practice than when back in beijing, and used the time to improve his practice to a level he doubted he would have reached if he wasn't arrested.