Sucker punch defence

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Sucker punch defence

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:04 am

Nicely done.

https://www.facebook.com/SituationalSel ... oi18xzntsY

Calm, aware. Blocked it well. Finish strategy.

But was he double weighted? ;)
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby middleway on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:11 am

Calm, aware. Blocked it well. Finish strategy.


Agreed. Good job, finish intensity was spot on.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:21 am

Don't know but that was a hell of a telegram the big guy sent. Little guy did everything right, he was ready
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 19, 2018 7:47 am

GrahamB wrote:
But was he double weighted? ;)


"He" who? :) But, afa the smaller guy, it was a great example of "when the opponent moves, I move first." ;)

The small guy just looked like he wasn't prepared. So, it was a reverse surprise attack.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Giles on Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:12 am

GrahamB wrote:But was he double weighted? ;)


No, the small guy definitely wasn't. Even under stress he was able to turn quickly around his axis several times during defence (absorbing the punch with his left arm, not stiffly blocking it) and counterattack, and was able to shift quickly from foot to foot when punching as well.

So he obviously trains tai chi. ;)
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:37 am

Steve James wrote:
GrahamB wrote:
But was he double weighted? ;)


"He" who? :) But, afa the smaller guy, it was a great example of "when the opponent moves, I move first." ;)

The attacker committed 100%, when attackee was free to counter (not double weighted:)
marvin8 wrote:Ideally, one attacks every time the opponent is double weighted; as the opponent is unable to counter. Hit and don't get hit.

Steve James wrote:The small guy just looked like he wasn't prepared. So, it was a reverse surprise attack.

I agree. The small guy feinted insubstantial/empty (double weighted) and attacker fell "into the trap:"
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Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming wrote:Jing’s Substantial Insubstantial

Offensively, attack where the opponent is weak. This does not mean where he is insubstantial because you would be falling into a trap. Instead, attack when he is switching from a substantial jing to an insubstantial, or vice versa. If you catch him just before he emits an offensive jing, you will be able to succeed.

Substantial and insubstantial jing are determined by your yi (mind). When you sense the opponent’s intention, your yi can change your actions from substantial to insubstantial, and vice versa. To facilitate this, do not emit all your energy. Rather, conserve some so that you can easily switch from one technique to another. . . .

. . . If you can switch easily and quickly between attack and defense, you will be able to conceal your techniques so that the opponent cannot understand what you are doing. When you look like you are attacking, you should not necessarily be attacking, and when you look like you are withdrawing, you should not be necessarily withdrawing. Your opponent should not be able to sense your intention from how you express your jing. This is called skillfully exchanging substantial and insubstantial. After a great deal of practice with many partners, your opponent will not be able to understand what you are doing, whether you are attacking or feinting, resisting or neutralizing, and he will not perceive how you are going to attack. This is reflected in the saying: “False-false, real-real, real-false, and false-real.”
Last edited by marvin8 on Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:53 am

Well I’m glad we cleared that up. Next logical question - was he internal?
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Bhassler on Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:55 pm

Here it is on the youtubes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYu1REZsIDQ

What did the clerk see to know the attack was coming prior to the attempt? What did the clerk do to give himself an edge? How could the attacker have known it was a bad idea? Would this likely stand up as self defense in court? Why or why not?
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:43 pm

What did the clerk see to know the attack was coming prior to the attempt?


I'm not him. But, in general, verbal and body language. The big guy wouldn't be standing there mouthing off if he weren't a threat. If he wanted to sneak the little guy, he should have pretended to be nice.

What did the clerk do to give himself an edge?


He didn't behave the same way the big guy did, and he didn't telegraph his emotions (spirit, shen, heart-mind). I.e., he stayed cool on the outside but had a fire burning inside.

How could the attacker have known it was a bad idea?


Imo, that's a silly question. Bullies don't think what they're doing is ever a bad idea. The question is why he thought it was a good idea, or an idea that wouldn't have consequences.

Would this likely stand up as self defense in court?


If I were on a Grand Jury and watched the video, I wouldn't charge the little guy with assault. He didn't have to continue hitting the big guy, but I don't think many jurors would indict. If the big guy got a concussion, or worse, and there were no video, I could imagine maybe a 3rd or 4th degree charge of misdemeanor assault.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby C.J.W. on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:48 pm

His timing was good, but I personally think it would've been safer for him to step in as he blocked as opposed to just holding his ground and raising his arm. If the attacker had thrown a stronger right hook and didn't just hit and pull back, it would have probably gone through his block and still nailed him in the face. But obviously he compensated for that by quickly retaliating with a series of aggressive punches.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby GrahamB on Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:01 am

How is he going to step back when he's already backed up against a storage unit?

His "Block" reminded me a lot of what Rickson is showing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbtIPkyGm4g



Also the point about not retreating and encouraging an advance from the attacker.

According to Rickson he shouldn't have had his arms down when the guy is that close though.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:21 pm

GrahamB wrote:How is he going to step back when he's already backed up against a storage unit?


I said to "step in" -- as in moving forward.

Against a common sucker punch or opponent wielding a blunt weapon, step in with a simultaneous blocking and striking movement. It's a very basic and effective principle taught in many military and reality-based self-defense systems, especially to laymen who do not have much training.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby GrahamB on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:46 pm

Ah - sorry, my brain read that as "step back".
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Trick on Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:07 am

Late karateka Steve Cattle held an seminar, with him was this big guy assistant. He asked his assistant to take a step back when he was demonstrating a technique on him, the big guy said..But Steve I never step back!
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Re: Sucker punch defence

Postby Steve James on Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:51 am

"Defense is the planning of an attack."
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