the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

On YouTube, I noticed two videos that seem produced from the same source, both from "Beijing Xicheng District Council of Culture," for China Intangible Cultural Heritage - such as baguazhang and xingyiquan:







But searching, I wasn't able to find any more examples - do any of you guys know where the mother lode might be? (More CMA of course - but maybe other intangible culture as well.)

Edit: added one found for Mr. Liu Jingru (baguazhang).

I don't know, but I hope you will post whatever you find out.

I suppose you have poked around on Baidu, entering likely phrases...

Try look through here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 7%E4%BA%A7

Here's another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AelLB6utc

It is my understanding , once an art is designated an “ intangible cultural heritage “, it pretty much becomes regulated by the governing bodies. The forms become standardized, and cannot be taught differently under any circumstance, all teachers must present and teach the same curriculum. IMO, the true art can be lost under such accords. Please , anyone correct me if I am wrong.

I did try various searches on Google and Baidu, but no luck! I found both separately by chance. I think that they are good, short introductions to each art for normal people.

I don't think that governments can regulate "intangible cultural heritages" in that way - even one art is so complex that it would be a huge undertaking to document, and impossible to force. A lot of these, I think, may be "too late" to pass on to the next generation (in totality) if they haven't been already!

It is my understanding , once an art is designated an “ intangible cultural heritage “, it pretty much becomes regulated by the governing bodies. The forms become standardized, and cannot be taught differently under any circumstance, all teachers must present and teach the same curriculum. IMO, the true art can be lost under such accords. Please , anyone correct me if I am wrong.

No, not at all. As one of the videos above is my uncle, Ma Chuanxu, I can clearly tell you, that what you think is not actually what will happen. The Liang Bagua family governs itself, and all of my uncles, and my teacher teach the curriculum that they were taught by Li Ziming, and each has his own focus and methods thereof.

What is happening in China is that the government is trying to boost "nationalist pride" by trying to highlight such things in different areas. So they approach legitimate teachers in an area and try do things like these videos to highlight this, but thats about as far as it goes. The teachers generally dont care much........

It seems they contacted the 2 formally established "research associations" in Beijing, namely the Xingyi Quan research Association and the Bagua Zhang Research Association and asked them to put forward a person each. The Bagua Research Association of course put forward Uncle Ma, as being the most senior practitioner in Beijing right now, and the oldest student of Li Ziming, who established the association. The Xingyi research Association head is Zhang Zengji and of course he put himself forward. The Xingyi research association has been a pile of poop for a number of years now by the way...I am no fan of Zhang....

"Pile of poop" How are those associations doing these days anyway?

I thought Zhang's xingyi looked okay - rare to see Song style in Beijing, I would guess that it is quite rare over there. But it would have been nice to see more senior practitioners demonstrate on the other hand.

Hmm, I didn't see it specified, but I thought it was UNESCO that had a list of "intangible cultural heritage" practices from various parts of the world. These are in contrast to the tangible world heritage sites like Machu Pichu, etc.

For ex. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOA9iN9vrU8

Have bagua and xingyi been recognized by UNESCO, specifically? Iinm, the UN provides funds to help protect the sites and practices because they're threatened and may be lost. That is one of the primary reasons for recognition. I don't think bagua or xingyi are in danger of being lost.

The PRC gov't doesn't need an excuse to regulate martial arts. But, that was done in the 80s when all the "official" manuals were published. The family styles still survived, anyway.

The lists of intangible culture are separate from those of UNESCO, I believe. And that's good - people have to value their own culture from their own selves first (can't just depend on UNESCO).

I think the Chinese already value their own culture. The UN project aimed to protect things that the world should value. Anyway, what is the Chinese list? Is shuai jiao or baji on it?

It's a national thing, not unesco. I'm not sure what is in the list, and really, we don't much care or pay attention to it.

Those associations are a joke, with the aim of who ever gets himself on top to try bullshit about himself and promote himself. That is actually more in line with chinese intangible culture actually...

Taijikid wrote:Try look through here:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... 7%E4%BA%A7

Here's another one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7AelLB6utc

I`m not filmmaker, but this looks like spedin` up video, so master may look faster than shit from the fan

Quick note to say I added another video of the same series to the top.

If anyone finds any more of the same series, please post! (I like the combination of great skill and great production.)