Dong

[wayne hansen]

https://youtu.be/Aml5MK5cLzQ

[Trip]

[Bao]

Agree with his "wrecking ball" analogy. I don't hear this a lot, but it is something I have used. In Tai Chi Chuan with the right teacher, you should develop a heavy, deep penetrating power. You don't stop the jin, but let it continue into the opponent's body. This is why Tai Chi jin demands that your whole body is relaxed and very loose so the kinetic energy can travel throughout the whole body from the foot to the fingertips without any hinderance. But you must also keep the same looseness throughout the whole movement and as you make contact with the surface. IME, as soon as you tense up, regardless where and how you tense up, the whole kinetic chain will be lost and your jin as well. Then the strength will be fragmented and come from partial use of the body instead of from the whole body together.

[wayne hansen]

I always laugh at those that say they stay relaxed until the point of impact then tense up
The opposite is true relay more when contact is made
His student doesn’t have it

[origami_itto]

Agree with his "wrecking ball" analogy. I don't hear this a lot, but it is something I have used. In Tai Chi Chuan with the right teacher, you should develop a heavy, deep penetrating power. You don't stop the jin, but let it continue into the opponent's body. This is why Tai Chi jin demands that your whole body is relaxed and very loose so the kinetic energy can travel throughout the whole body from the foot to the fingertips without any hinderance. But you must also keep the same looseness throughout the whole movement and as you make contact with the surface. IME, as soon as you tense up, regardless where and how you tense up, the whole kinetic chain will be lost and your jin as well. Then the strength will be fragmented and come from partial use of the body instead of from the whole body together.

What I've found with that, too, is that tension causes it to catch.

So say punching the air or whatever, if you make a tight fist or try to stop at the end it stresses the joints. If you stay loose then at the end of your movement you still have the bend as a shock absorber and the energy can dissipate in your hands. When I hit something this way, more transfers to the other body and it doesn't rebound as much.

The people in that facebook group are still looking at the hands

[windwalker]

Master Alex Dong is a fourth generation Taijiquan Master of the Dong (Tung) family
He started his formal training with his father, Grand Master Dong Zeng Chen at the age of five in Hebei Province, the heart of martial arts in China. In 1983, at the age of twelve, he moved to Honolulu, Hawaii where he continued his training with his father and also studied with his grandfather, Grand Master Dong Hu Ling who had a major influence on his learning. In 1991, Alex Dong was awarded the US National Tai Chi Chuan championship in moving push hands and the Best Martial Spirit Title for all competitors while representing the state of Hawaii.

Interesting

If one learned the Dong family fast sets , what was mentioned in the clip would follow "their" way of understanding and method...

Alex Dong:I’m sharing videos I downloaded from my groups in China. Good, decent or bad, they are real-none compliant. It’s only through real push hands we can improve."

Would not agree,....PH a training method... is compliant by nature, how can it not be ?

It's only through fighting "testing" that one improves or understands the efficacy of a method or not.



..

[Bao]

The opposite is true relax more when contact is made

Agree 100%

Then you are truly releasing ("fa") the energy ("jin") directly into the opponent.

When I hit something this way, more transfers to the other body and it doesn't rebound as much.

My experience as well.

Would not agree,....PH a training method... is compliant by nature, how can it not be ?

You've got a point.

[Trip]

Would not agree,....PH a training method... is compliant by nature, how can it not be ?

You've got a point.

I believe this too.
Push Hands Training should be compliant in order to facilitate learning basic Taiji sensitivity skills.

But, I also acknowledge, that in this world we live in, non-compliant push hands exist too.
So, it all depends on me correctly reading the type of Push Hands situation I am in.
If I’m pushing against someone who is non-compliant,
I don’t care

Let them do what they do
I care way more about did I recognize that my partner is no longer being compliant.
Cause, if not, then I wasn’t listening

Besides ignoring the reality of the situation
If I wasn’t listening, then I was not practicing one of Taiji’s basic key skills

It shouldn't matter to me if someone is compliant or not compliant
What really matters is can I deal with it?

Taiji should work, period.
If it doesn't…

[Trip]

Also, Why did this change from a thread about a student in a particular stage of learning Fajin
to being critical about Dong posting a video about Push Hands?
Huh??

It seems like someone just used this thread as an opportunity just to criticize the Dong's

[origami_itto]

Also, Why did this change from a thread about a student in a particular stage of learning Fajin
to being critical about Dong posting a video about Push Hands?
Huh??

It seems like someone just used this thread as an opportunity just to criticize the Dong's

As far as I know, around here, nobody doesn't like Dong Taiji

[windwalker]

Also, Why did this change from a thread about a student in a particular stage of learning Fajin
to being critical about Dong posting a video about Push Hands?
Huh??

It seems like someone just used this thread as an opportunity just to criticize the Dong's

someone always someone

a little sensitive.

Had studied the style in 1980

Sam and Peter my first intro to the taiji world

Peter: The initial five years of instruction took place under Master Sam Kekina and
Master Tung HuLing at the Hsu Yun Buddhist Temple in Nuuanu valley not far from where he lived.

The style as a method, far from where my own path has lead me to...
The most I would say, It's quite different....
noting differences should not be taken as a criticism...

[Trip]

Had studied the style in 1980

Sam and Peter my first intro to the taiji world

The method as a style, far from where my own path has lead me to...

Yes, I know where your own path has led you to...
You talk about it a lot.



And, I noticed over the years,
that when the Dong's are brought up
You often mention you studied Dong Style from someone
But you're moved on to your new path

So, I was just wondering how
a thread about a student in a particular stage of learning fajin
changes to being about Alex posting a video about Push Hands?
Or, was this really about something else that you never clearly say?

But, I guess you answered it.

The most I would say is that its quite different....

Cool
Thank you

[windwalker]

Yes had studied the style, mention it in tribute to a friend of mine...
another traveler along the path.

The push hands clip was intended to show Alex's method in action...even in a limited format...

The caption mentioned da "real" push hands non-compliant" what ever this means
was the way to improve

Didn't agree,,,problem

lets see what you didn't have a problem with or wonder about..

IME, as soon as you tense up, regardless where and how you tense up, the whole kinetic chain will be lost and your jin as well. Then the strength will be fragmented and come from partial use of the body instead of from the whole body together.

I always laugh at those that say they stay relaxed until the point of impact then tense up
The opposite is true relay more when contact is made
His student doesn’t have it

What I've found with that, too, is that tension causes it to catch.

noticed their wasn't an issue until, what is the topic "fa=jin " ?
is seen in action...

Unless, you felt that there was no fa jin, used in the push hand clip?

maybe might need to see it again





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bARjbf5pjgo&t=39s

If there is no fa jin, being used or shown.. Perhaps I was mistaken in using it as an example of the teachers work
happens..

What's the point of showing my work and not your own ?

[wayne hansen]

I find this a good example of the family style

https://youtu.be/9jJ0eTawWzU

[wayne hansen]

Sorry this is the one I meant to share

https://youtu.be/AGfE6C18ePw