distance

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distance

Postby windwalker on Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:02 pm



White crane a long arm style with unique foot work
building an understanding of distance working within a circular area

in use


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0A-uJ91on8

Hello. My name is Dr. Gareth Smith. I am direct lineage holder and keeper of Master George Long and Master Ronald Dong complete healing and combat system of training that can be traced back 600 years to Tibet.

This original video was recorded May 6, 1995 in Tulsa OK of my student, Cory Stone, who was 15 years old. It was his first KO.
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."

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Re: distance

Postby Sea.Wolf.Forge on Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:38 pm

I just watched that for minutes, whole minutes, of my life. What did I do to you to deserve that?
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Re: distance

Postby windwalker on Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:58 pm

Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:I just watched that for minutes, whole minutes, of my life. What did I do to you to deserve that?


Better then being knocked on one's ass... ;D

many have questioned the validity of the style...
when I was younger usually they got knocked on their ass as an answer..
in some cases broken arms. "accidentally not intentionally". while attempting to block a strike.


interesting style with a long history of usage as a fighting style....
not something I practice anymore...

the theory and how it works quite interesting the training very intense geared towards "fighting"

By the 1950s, Bak Hok Pai was one of the most well-known styles in Hong Kong and Macau, and popular in nearby Guangdong and Guangxi as well, alongside native southern arts like Wing Chun, Hung Ga, and Choy Lay Fut. Grandmaster Ng Siu-chung and his senior disciples Chan Hak Fu (陳克夫), Kwong Poon Fu (邝本夫), and Luk Chi Fu (陆智夫) — the "Three Fus" or "Three Masters" of White Crane (白鶴三夫) — proudly presided over schools that trained many Hong Kong and Macau officials and celebrities, including local police. One notable practitioner was the actor Kwan Tak-hing, who played Wong Fei-hung in at least 77 of his 130 films. (Kwan had to learn some Hung Ga to move like the historical Wong Fei-hung.)[21]
Last edited by windwalker on Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."

empty circle taiji
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Re: distance

Postby windwalker on Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:07 pm

Image

a little more about the style from my teacher long ago...Mike



Actually, I can go on for quite a while about the footwork...maybe until you get sick of hearing about it. So why don't I limit it to the basics:

You guys all know that one way to classify gongfu styles is by the linear vs. the circular. It's a contrast between a line and a circle. Linear styles tend to move directly toward or directly back away from one's opponent. Of course there are small variations of this theme, slight movements angling off to the side. But this is only to further the drive forward. The footwork involved here is generally simple -- e.g., side-stepping in and back, or whatever.

With circular styles, the footwork can be more elaborate, opening angles of many variations. You can see this with, for instance, Baqua. As the Baqua practitioner travels around his or her circle, watch the footwork used to vary the travel.

With White Crane, it is the footwork that makes everything work. But it is the horse that makes the footwork work. So without the horse, the footwork will break down. And the horse is something that is very difficult to just look at and do. You need a teacher to tell you, for instance, that the root of the horse travels down through the heel, not the toe. So that when you see someone lift their heel, it means their horse is broken.

The problem with this is two fold. First, it means the footwork pattern avilalbe to the horse is now no longer available in the same way. Second, it means the arm and hand techniques available to the rooted horse are no longer available. So, for instance, there are "Gorilla" techniques (probably not the best name for them...but oh well) that require a stable horse, and there are "Crane" techniques that require a fluid horse. Each have different approaches to the hand/arm positions, and each have their own way of expressing the footwork patterns through their respective horses.

So again, it is the footwork that makes the long-arm work. Without it, the style becomes just what linear stylists usually see in White Crane -- a slow, out-of-wack, horribly open and vulnerable set of movements that don't make sense. But in order to make use of the footwork patterns, you MUST have a solid horse. Without that, you can't move properly... and ALL of your other techniques will be in weak.

And yet, there aren't that many footwork patterns in White Crane (as we learned it), and more than there are hand/arm/kicking techniques. You may have heard that gongfu styles can also be divided into "closed" and "open" systems, as well as "narrow" and "wide" systems.

A "narrow" system is one that specifies a particular response for a particular attack. So for every possible attack, there is a specific response. And because there are a great many possible attacks, there are also a great may specifc techniques to counter them. With "narrow" systems, you have A LOT of techniques -- like the proverbial 108 hand techniques, for instance. A "wide" system has much fewer techniques, but looks to the changes possible for each of them. So for instance, you might only have 5 or 6 basic punches... but many "changes" associated with those punches. See also Baqua, with it's emphasis on changes.

The way to learn how to use a wide system (like White Crane) is then to gain experience with using the limited number of techniques you have available, in a wide assortment of attacks. In other words, you have to use the techniques in sparring... a lot of sparing... so you can learn how a single punch can be used against multiple attack patterns.

it's the same way with the footwork.

Image



In my book (love to keep bringing this up), I talk about how I was wedged into a corner during a particularly difficult sparing match, and just before I was about to bite the dust, some part of me found my horse, and as soon as I did, I just kind of unconsciously also found the correct footwork pattern that completely removed me from the corner, like magic. The two went together -- footwork pattern & horse. Had I never dropped down into that horse, the footwork would never have become available.

So again, the footwork is tied to the horse, and so are all of the long-arm techniques. without the footwork and the horse, the long-arm techniques won't make sense, and won't work properly. But unlike some styles that practice one way, and spar or fight another way,

the White Crane techniques are meant to be used as practiced... precisely as practiced.



which the video clips posted show....
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."

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Re: distance

Postby Sea.Wolf.Forge on Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:00 am

There's drinking kool-aid and then there's swimming in it. ::)
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Re: distance

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:43 am

Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:There's drinking kool-aid and then there's swimming in it. ::)


So step out of the koolaid or change the flavor... ;D




3 star. on a pole, a conditioning exercises among many....
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: distance

Postby Bhassler on Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:36 am

So even with those movements looking big and slow, a 15 year-old boy had the timing, range, and power to one-shot K.O. his opponent. Assuming he continued, what do you suppose it looks like now, with 3 more decades of practice and a whole bunch of man-strength behind it? It would probably be like getting swatted by a bear.

What's in the video is definitely not a finished product, but as a step on the path to gongfu, I think it's pretty impressive. What it was is nicely elucidated in Mr. Staples' commentary later in the thread.
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Re: distance

Postby windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 10:21 am

Bhassler wrote:So even with those movements looking big and slow, a 15 year-old boy had the timing, range, and power to one-shot K.O. his opponent. Assuming he continued, what do you suppose it looks like now, with 3 more decades of practice and a whole bunch of man-strength behind it? It would probably be like getting swatted by a bear.

What's in the video is definitely not a finished product, but as a step on the path to gongfu, I think it's pretty impressive. What it was is nicely elucidated in Mr. Staples' commentary later in the thread.


:)

Mike was ahead of his time, he started experimenting incorporating boxing into the practice....feeling it offered something as a mid to short range method.

Hopefully should he be reading the thread he chimes on some of the aspects in question. never know :)

David Chin one of Mike's teachers, would later go on to produce fighters using this , later on incorporating grappling into it,
understanding what they would face in the ring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhfl09iukLE

If you listen closely you can hear him coaching the students.

fighter "i'm trying to pull them as much as I can" :)

David Chin " don't pull, full punch " ;D

He once mentioned he would bring over Thai boxers and others to his gym, so people would get a chance to fight in spar with them...

good guy very much missed..
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:30 pm, edited 9 times in total.
" It’s all in the Form; but only if it is, ALL in the Form."

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Re: distance

Postby Sea.Wolf.Forge on Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:39 pm

windwalker wrote:He started experimenting incorporating boxing into the practice....feeling it offered something as a mid to short range method...later on incorporating grappling into it,
understanding what they would face in the ring.


Blasphemy!
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Re: distance

Postby Appledog on Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:25 pm

Bhassler wrote:So even with those movements looking big and slow, a 15 year-old boy had the timing, range, and power to one-shot K.O. his opponent. Assuming he continued, what do you suppose it looks like now, with 3 more decades of practice and a whole bunch of man-strength behind it? It would probably be like getting swatted by a bear.

What's in the video is definitely not a finished product, but as a step on the path to gongfu, I think it's pretty impressive. What it was is nicely elucidated in Mr. Staples' commentary later in the thread.


Sea.Wolf.Forge wrote:
windwalker wrote:He started experimenting incorporating boxing into the practice....feeling it offered something as a mid to short range method...later on incorporating grappling into it,
understanding what they would face in the ring.


Blasphemy!


I took a look at the videos and, I am not going to complain that it is just flailing by kids -- first because that's what my youtube channel contains, but secondly, because I've been there and I know what they're doing and why it isn't working. My main observation is, that most people never get past this kind of level because they don't even realize they are there.
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Re: distance

Postby Sea.Wolf.Forge on Tue Jun 20, 2023 3:47 pm

Appledog wrote: My main observation is, that most people never get past this kind of level because they don't even realize they are there.


Image
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