Maybe Silk Reeling

[Giles]

In the actual "What is the point of silk reeling - to you?" thread, the question was raised at some point whether silk reeling exercises/moves must always involve explicit spirals. That made me think of the following exercise, one of the basics that I train and teach. For me, this is a really good format for making deep relaxed body connections and get that 'everything moves together' feeling, and it doesn't have explicit spirals. Although it does have spirals on the inside, if you want to find them.

Just filmed this morning. In some moments I have some pretty good connections, in other moments it's a little unsure, then reconnect.




And now really exposing myself to the fierce gaze of the world - I followed this up with a bit of free play in which I try to keep connecting through the body into both hands, whatever movements come. And of course enjoy myself.

[Appledog]

In some moments I have some pretty good connections, in other moments it's a little unsure, then reconnect.

And now really exposing myself to the fierce gaze of the world - I followed this up with a bit of free play in which I try to keep connecting through the body into both hands, whatever movements come. And of course enjoy myself.

Nicely done. Don't worry about others, they don't understand. You're absolutely right! In some moments, you really do have some pretty good connections.

A question occurred to me. Are you trying to express silk reeling the concept whether or not it exists in your body as a driving force (aka "fake it till you make it"), or are you starting from some ability to express "internal strength" and using that as a driving force to provide spiral movement (aka "this is what I can do right now")? Just curious. Nice video

p.s. If you don't mind. Who is holding the camera?

[everything]

Giles, you look fluid and "connected" to me.

It all sounds like a Very Large Red Herring. After 16 pages on that silk reeling thread, it doesn't sound like anyone attempted to define such an "internal" quality. Some said a "quality of movement". Nobody seems to have attempted to address my Venus Williams tennis serve video. Nobody can deny her quality of movement. So she has "silk reeling" according to this definition. Surely she also has "cool warmups" according to origami's tongue-in-cheek definition. She has a strong expression of force rooted in the feet, controlled through the waist, coming "out" of her fingertips. She certainly "stored" a lot of force that is "released" into the serve with great power and accuracy. So top tennis = taijiquan = silk reeling.

Same with that guy windwalker showed, although obviously he's never been #1 in the world in a top popularity (by volume of participants, watchers, etc.) competitive sport, it seems he shows an "athletic quality". People immediately rejected that notion as some sort of overly "external" idea. Something on the "inside" if we think there is an "internal", doesn't seem likely to be "visible" on the "outside". Even something like when Pavel Tsatsouline says to do push ups but with non-visible "spirals" (which I don't think is "IMA" yet he is right that it "instantly helps").

Now on "That Other Thread", there is some idea of KO power. So the skinny guy with ko power I posted or Fedor (drink, origami) have "silk reeling" just like Venus does? How about Tiger Woods? Messi? It's very odd.

[Giles]

Nicely done. Don't worry about others, they don't understand.

Not too worried, and not feeling tragically misunderstood or rejected.

You're absolutely right! In some moments, you really do have some pretty good connections.

Thanks.

A question occurred to me. Are you trying to express silk reeling the concept whether or not it exists in your body as a driving force (aka "fake it till you make it"), or are you starting from some ability to express "internal strength" and using that as a driving force to provide spiral movement (aka "this is what I can do right now")? Just curious. Nice video

Well, definitely the second option. I'm long past the need to try and fake anything I can't actually do. In this vid, I'm just connecting with myself and with the environment - the resulting movements, in their larger dimensions and nuances, are the result of what my mind is doing. And of course, the result of decades of fanatical, high-level training . So it's a bit like meditation, where - unless you're VERY good at it - there are phases where the mind is more sunk in contemplation and everything is complete, and then moments where the mind drifts away, the monkey starts jabbering, and then it falls silent again and you're back in the good space. In this playing around, the connection of my body corresponds closely to the clarity of my mind, of being in the moment - where each new perceived 'moment' is just a fraction of a second. Reduced clarity of mind, 'anticipating' or 'wanting' for even a fraction of a second, will undermine the connectedness in the flow of movement.

As regards "internal strength": an additional feedback for the first exercise, Great Tai Chi Wheel, is for someone else to push against me, against any part of my body, including from behind, while I'm cycling through the sequence. If I'm in the groove, then I can kind of perceive but ignore them and they will slide off or be projected out while I just keep doing my thing. Of course my ability here has limits, I'm not some kind of great master. If someone charges in and gives me a full body shove from behind, then I'll be moved. But aside from that, a fairly strong push will often be swallowed or bounced out if I have a good connection at that moment. And I'm still practicing, of course. A year ago I couldn't do that.

p.s. If you don't mind. Who is holding the camera?

We'd just finished a qigong class in the park and I asked my students if anyone could spare 10 minutes for a 'quick and dirty' recording. One of them said yes, I passed him my old Samsung phone and there you are.

[Giles]

@ Everything
Good thoughts and questions. I think it's important to keep method separated from result, or in other words not to conflate them. On the one hand, a certain method and understanding of training will tend to lead to certain abilities and qualities, while another method (and understanding) may not. On the other hand, a certain result (or at least similar results) may be reached with quite different methods or routes. (Remember the issue of convergent evolution that was mentioned in Off The Topic a year or so ago?).
So I'd say that "silk reeling" is a particular method for body and mind that, done well, can generate strong whole-body connections while also promoting relaxation and flexibility. In a way that should feed back usefully into partner training and, if needed, actual self-defence. And maybe also brings other qualities and benefits: conserving and/or healing the body, maybe also healing the mind a little, being interesting, nice or even wonderful in itself. This in contrast to some other methods that will also achieve whole-body connection, strength and efficiency, but maybe aren't so nice to do in themselves. For me, sessions in the fitness studio doing cardio and resistance training are productive and even necessary, but far less enjoyable than my IMA solo training. They don't do the same good things with my 'soul'.

And of course, it's RSF so there's not even a clear and general consensus on what "silk reeling" is or should be.
But that aside, silk reeling is a method, not a result. Venus Williams has great connection, strength, flow etc. Maybe she could plug these qualities straight into self-defence, maybe the way she moves also has a self-healing aspect...? Who knows? Whatever the case, silk reeling can bring its own suite of qualities that are special when you consider both journey (meaning many hours of your life that are hopefully good in themselves) and result (how it changes you, what you can do with it).

[Bao]

I liked it, especially your freestyle fluid movements. Good practice whatever you want to call it.

[Giles]

Thank you.

[GrahamB]

For the record, no, I don't think Venus Williams does silk reeling. Some bits of what Giles does have potential, but he quite often reverts to arm movements (which stops it being silk reeling), especially when twisting the wrists. It looks fun, whatever it is.

Giles - if you want to investigate how to do 'real' Spirit Dance (which I'd say this is a form of) then I'd recommend The Woven Energy Podcast - start at episode 1 and go forward.

https://www.spreaker.com/show/woven-energy

[Quigga]

Giles you're doing a better job at it than Graham so don't worry lol

[origami_itto]

And of course, it's RSF so there's not even a clear and general consensus on what "silk reeling" is or should be.

The eternal problem. Silk reeling is a certain set of things, we each get some little understanding of one aspect of these things or one thing and consider it to be the whole. Then we viciously defend our patch of comprehension from any reduction or expansion, when really we just need to notch out the little circle on that left edge that we need to fasten the next puzzle piece to.

There's a story about a seeker who asked his grandfather how he would know his guru wasn't a fake.

His grandfather told him that a true guru would always be consistent in his words and actions.

So the seeker found a guru to follow and went to his cabin in the woods in the winter to check him out and apply to be his disciple.

They had to build a fire so they went into the woods to gather fuel. The seeker was confused because the guru kept blowing into his hands.

"Master", he said. "Why do you keep blowing into your hands?"
"It is cold, it's to warm them up." The guru replied.

The seeker carefully considered the wisdom of this response and understood deep in his soul the truth of breath, it warms.

They gathered the wood and returned to the house, built a fire, and the guru made soup. He ladled out a bowl for himself and the seeker.

The guru filled a spoon with soup, brought it near his mouth, and blew gently on the liquid.

The seeker was confused. "Master, why are you blowing on your soup?"
"It is hot, it's to cool it down." The guru replied.

The seeker carefully considered the wisdom of this response and came to a grave and difficult enlightenment.

"I can no longer call you master," he said. "You taught me breath warms, but now you contradict yourself and tell me it cools? You are not consistent in your words and actions and I therefore can't trust your teaching."

And with no further ceremony he left, to continue his search for a true guru.

[GrahamB]

Giles you're doing a better job at it than Graham so don't worry lol

Yeah, you're definitely better than Graham. Fuck that guy.

[Quigga]

Glad we agree on that lmao. Do you need help healing your self loathing?

[Giles]

Well, maybe we can blow just a little on the exchange of views, to cool things down or warm them up, as needs be...

Thanks for the tip, Graham, but with all the stuff I do already, I don't really have the urge to go for true Spirit Dance. I'm actually an ex-dancer (in the sense of a state-funded 4-year training programme in Amsterdam, and a fair amount of performance and choreographing before and after). However the normal bounds of tai chi/IMA training and exchange, plus a little contact improvisation dance, are currently a universe in itself for me. You know the old adage about it being better to find water by digging one hole (or possibly two?) deeply instead of many shallow holes.
If I were actually aiming to do a solo dance improvisation, then my little movement excursion in the park would have looked quite different. I was just doing as I wrote already - listening to connections - and enjoying myself. Anyway, thank you for recognizing my potential.

[origami_itto]

Well, maybe we can blow just a little on the exchange of views, to cool things down or warm them up, as needs be...

You are wise in the way of Qi.

I want to film a little something about this too. I am simply loving the board's obsession with silk reeling lately and intend to answer the question definitively.

[Giles]

I want to film a little something about this too. I am simply loving the board's obsession with silk reeling lately and intend to answer the question definitively.

...opening notebook, licking pencil, looking eager...

Actually, I guess the 'hotness' of this topic is because, probably, it's another way of discussing what actually happens inside bodies when they train tai chi in a good and consistent manner. And how this then translates back into practical effects / fighting. And maybe also physical and emotional health, although this latter aspect seems to get consistently dropped by the wayside, as far as I can see.
So maybe it's even "what's the essense of tai chi chuan?". In a brown paper bag, so as not to offend the public.