Why is Baji called the "Great Internal Martial Art"?

[Bob]

Controversial idea here - Even questions how effective bajiquan, let alone Chinese martial arts, is among the other MMA, BJJ etc in discussion


First time I've ever heard it referred to the GREAT internal martial art - titles like that bound to fester controversy LOL


Why is Bajiquan called "Da Nei Wushu"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YJctEVc9Ys

[Bao]

Controversial idea here
...
First time I've ever heard it referred to the GREAT internal martial art - titles like that bound to fester controversy LOL
...
Why is Bajiquan called "Da Nei Wushu"?

What I have understood is that you go more to the soft and internal as you progress in Baji. I bought a couple of Baji VCD's in China about 20 yrs ago. The form and solo exercises were quite "soft" in its expression. The fighting methods and applications, as well as the execution, were identical to what I had learned from Tai Chi teachers.

The different internal arts are still different, but they all meet somewhere and in some respects become more similar at higher levels. In my view there are a few Chinese arts that can look very external at lower levels, but at higher levels, they have at least most of what you can find in the "three sisters" in their higher levels.

[nicklinjm]

Bob, pretty sure the 'Great Internal' you are referring to is a mistranslation. The original Chinese is 'Da Nei' (大内) which does not refer to martial arts at all, but instead is an old name for the Imperial Palace (i.e. Forbidden City), see here:

https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E5%A4%A7%E5%86%85/4623830

I'm presuming it refers to Baji practitioners (Huo family) being bodyguards to the last emperor, Puyi.

[Bob]

Nicklinjin:

Thanks for your comments and insights - good to know

BTW I see you are located in Beijing - just got back from Beijing - 1st time in 5 years - really a lot of changes

Thanks for your insights Bao - in my early days there was a lot of debate whether baji was internal v. external - one common fear was that if baji got labeled internal people would start practicing it for health rather than martial arts prowess - like taijiquan LOL.

I always saw xiao baji, as practiced in my line, having a very strong internal component as well as some of the neigong we started on the first day of class - however no one sat around talking about qi - there was more of an obsession with developing "power".

I agree, at least in my line, that power becomes "softer" as you develop - heard people say in the early stages the power is "crispy" "and punctuated.

As one develops, it becomes a more "rounded" "softer" less punctuated expression of power

[Doc Stier]

...power becomes "softer" as you develop - heard people say in the early stages the power is "crispy" and later develops into a more "rounded" "softer" less punctuated expression of power

Agreed. Absolutely so. As one example, novice level Xingyiquan often looks like a type of Chinese karate, firm and linear with long power, but at high skill levels looks and feels more like Small Frame Fast Form Taijiquan, soft and circular with short power.

[Bob]

Although he is not from my line of baji, I have always thought that this flavor and structure would be a model of those of us 65+ years old

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5vTDUjpIQ4

Baji Boxing Xiao Jia - Drill by Chen Xiang BaJI Xiao Jia by Chen Taiji Master ChenXiang




You can see him when he was younger performing Hun Yuan Taijiquan and I'm certain influenced his baji flavor which, my thinking, just adds to the importance of "softness" in practice .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3q9yCwU5zA



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGoWbQ17_Z4
M.Chen Xiang curso II parte: Forma Hun Yuan de 24



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ7XXKgNdZk

[Bob]

The "crispy" flavor of baji is seen in the segment 4:26 - as a side note you can see Vicent Mei's teacher from 3:04 - 4:24 (Mizong yi 1) The comments below are from the clip creator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z02C0MKnjls

Various clips from years gone past. First clip abstract Northern Mantis demo James Rodgers II 2005 and then in slow mo, Second abstract Jian form performed by close friend and teacher GM Sun De Yao 2005, third Mi Zong 1 Performed by the Late Great GM Chen of Wutan 1981, 4th but my favorite, GM Yang my master performing Baji 1981. Music is my original Composition.