Traditional arts are they lost?

[windwalker]

Presently, the development trend of Tai Chi practice has been hijacked by specific movements. There exists an appearance of Tai Chi forms without the essence of Tai Chi's philosophy. The focus on producing so-called "Tai Chi movements" has gradually replaced understanding how to execute movements in accordance with the principles of Tai Chi.

This has become the mainstream approach to learning Tai Chi. Moreover, various medical centers worldwide continuously publish research reports stating the health benefits of Tai Chi. However, these references primarily emphasize the gentle external movements of Tai Chi, although they hold positive evaluations and encouragement for Tai Chi. Yet, they also once again obscure the true nature of Tai Chi, burying its precious essence deeper for those unaware.

some thoughts by a student of teacher Wu Guozhong

Mr. Zheng Manqing, a remarkable individual, was the Tai Chi master of Mr. Wu Guozhong, the captain of the Frogmen Team. Mr. Wu Guozhong is my (Professor Bookworm's) Tai Chi instructor [Note 1]. This article refers to the two venerable predecessors as "Master Zheng" and "Master Wu." After Master Zheng passed away in 1975, Master Wu established the Sheng Long Martial Arts Hall, fulfilling his commitment to his teacher's legacy and began teaching Tai Chi extensively.

Appledog wrote:
"I will not be known for my teachers, I will not live in the shadow of a person's name or the name of an art. I will teach people who seek me out, not as a representative of an art, but as a great person."

Example of differences in eastern and western thought.

[origami_itto]

We all have our motivation, right?

Me, I do this because it's fun, keeps my body and mind active and getting stronger every day.

I'm in no way interested in ever hurting another individual. I hope I never have to use Taijiquan to do that again.

"I will not be known for my teachers, I will not live in the shadow of a person's name or the name of an art. I will teach people who seek me out, not as a representative of an art, but as a great person."

Yeah, personal glory doesn't seem very sustainable.

I just want to teach people something they can use to make their lives better, and maybe help keep them from getting hurt out there when they run into a violent asshole, or a slippery shower floor. If our personalities vibe then right on, if not, then they should probably go elsewhere, right? I don't think anybody is ever going to seek out the great Origami Itto to learn anything.

I mean, other than Subitai who drove all the way from Connecticut to get the drop on me at dinner...

Why DO people do it? I guess ego demands an answer like "To be a peerless boxer".

I appreciate the technicalities and game of combat but honestly, I'd hate to hurt anybody.

So I like Tai Chi with no "finishing move". I just need to keep me and mine safe I don't need to hurt anybody to do that unless they are very stupid and insist on it.

Traditionally, you'd do it because your Dad made you do it, right? Now, you've got to have some benefit to give people, and that requires some label they can understand.

The sign on the front of the YMCA is gonna say "Tai Chi", not "Origami Itto's fantastic smile and fitness routine".

Being a Floridian, I know it's much better to stay in the shadows. That heat is a killer.

[everything]

not trying to pass on anything (other than funds), either in an egotistical or non-ego driven way.

but if you are lucky to have the art touch you, you kinda get fascinated by it, that's all. how can you not try to learn some of it

[Appledog]

Please don't misquote me. I said that's what you should be doing. I.E. people in general.

People in general seem to be unaware of what is written in the classics;

知止而后有定；定而后能静；"Once you have the goal in mind,

欲修其身者，先正其心； To cultivate the persons, first rectify the heart.

靜而后能安；安而后能慮；慮而后能得；That deliberation will be followed by the attainment of the desired end:

其所厚者薄，而其所薄者厚，未之有也。 The art has not been lost.

[windwalker]

Please don't misquote me. I said that's what you should be doing. I.E. people in general.

.

Don't believe I have.

Appledog wrote:

That being said, if you want to be "aware of" and "preserve" the martial traditions, they are out there. There are solutions. The question is whether or not those solutions are going to work. From what I have seen they work. But it's not for everyone. For starters you have to give up your life. You're not allowed to have a life. Also get off your high horse.

The problem is infinitely more plebian that finding the right teacher. proof, look at Pan Qing Fu. Now, I am sure that M. Pan had a great teacher.

It just strikes me at the moment that I cannot recall who it is. Perhaps that is because what M. Pan did in his life eclipsed that of his teacher. Thus, he honored him. It should be all of our greatest honor to honor our teachers in this fashion, and say, "I will not be known for my teachers, I will not live in the shadow of a person's name or the name of an art.

I will teach people who seek me out, not as a representative of an art, but as a great person."

posted after quoting me 3 different times....
not an answer or related ?

if you say so.....

Perhaps I am mistaken



As to the rest...find the posts in "General"

a little confusing maybe due to the title...my mistake

The thread was meant to convey a general trend most notably associated with CMA in that what is often practiced is not used.

Instead historical anecdotes are used to show case an arts functionality .
In most cases the art was developed as an answer to some type of problem at the time...Thought to give the practitioners an advantage in the process helping the arts to evolve ....

This historical process, has been lost according to the OP's video,

Why is Chinese kungfu declining What happened in 1880！

contributing to the arts general decline among it's practitioners...
The methodology and practices part of cultural traditions, will always be maintained by those within the culture and those having an interest in them....

happy new year to all

[everything]

fighting empty handed isn't so useful/needed in a modern era when people just kill you with cars, assault rifles, etc. nvm the actual military. even if you go to N. Sentinel Island, they would kill you with arrows, not by hand (and your viruses and bacteria would probably cause inadvertent genocide).

so by definition, it's a "useless" art. but people who can do great art of whatever type are going to keep doing it, thank goodness. and of course, humans can create sport/entertainment out of arts.

think we are beating another dead horse, but I don't follow the concern. suppose you are great at jazz. suppose you are "the best". you don't need to single handedly save jazz and it's impossible to do that. all cool niche arts will survive with some min # of participants. even if one of those doesn't attain previous heights from a "golden era".

however, as a (masturbatory) intellectual what if exercise, it'd be interesting to ponder what optimal conditions if possible would need to be created so a "new YLC" could emerge. it's practically impossible, probably, but theoretically interesting

[Bob]

It's so interesting - 1990 - private conversation 4th generation Yang Chengfu disciple - Zheng Manqing Taijiquan not tradional Yang family line - called it a style of its own - asked what weapons beside the sword did he teach his close students - where was his fajin expressed - not in Yang's family taijiquan? Take a,look at what Fu Zhongwen taught - an endless circle from style to style,family to family, variant to variant

[everything]

it says (on the internet, keeper of all truths /sarcasm) that Fu was one who learned and maybe transmitted a lot of "real"

[wayne hansen]

Those saying they carry Fu,s legacy don’t seem to have the goods
You don’t need to have a form that expresses Fajing to have Fajing

[Doc Stier]

Interesting perspectives and comments here. Thanks for posting.

From my perspective, no teacher, no master, can practice for their students. They can only practice for themselves. Thus, every practitioner at any level is solely responsible for maintaining and preserving what they were taught, whether it was a partial or a complete transmission of a style or system.

In every generation, there will usually be a small handful of students who will train seriously enough to learn all of their chosen arts, and thereafter practice sufficiently to remember and refine everything they received as a student. Their consistent loyalty and support enables the teacher to do likewise, insuring that nothing is lost or forgotten.

However, the mere survival of a training regimen and curriculum doesn't guarantee that those who possesses it will actually achieve the full potential of their art. Even a small part of most styles requires considerable effort to master. And so it is, always and everywhere.

[Appledog]

[everything]