Bajiquan Combo Concept “White Crane Spreads Wings"

[Bob]

From comments:
"I’ve been wondering how to make BaiHe LianChe work, and the grappling was the one that worked best or use is it to break a hold using the hook hand and palm to face with the other to then use the Ting Ding Xin Zhou"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c-4ywRmY1c

Bajiquan Combo Concept “White Crane Spreads Wings”



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVy7u4wfKA

Bajiquan Discussion on "Taolu, Combos, and Single Drills"

[wayne hansen]

Not all that well done but much better understanding of SW than those shown in previous clips
SW is about the whipping energy it teaches
It starts at the end of push and finishes before lift hands
Up to that GST uses for want of a better word push/pull energy with the 4 pillars WO RB P & P
SW shows how to do the same 4 using whipping energy
Once again it is how you come out of SW that is more important

Yours sincearly. THE DICK

[GrahamB]

Lot of southern Chinese arts use whipping energy, but I think this association on Single Whip with "whipping energy" is simply a mistranslation of "whip" - it means a stick. There are various martial art forms done with a "whip" and it's a short stick. Not to say that there isn't a whip type feel to applications in Single Whip, but there are two different whips being talked about.



I'd put money on that being the inspiration right there. Single because only one hand is on the "whip".

I'm useless with Chinese, but a quick search reveals:

" 扁担 Trad. 扁擔
biǎn dan
carrying pole
shoulder pole"

[wayne hansen]

It still is the use of sipping energy
Not only southern arts use it snake in Hsing I is a great example
Hsing I states when hitting to the side use flapping energy
That is another form of whipping energy

[Bob]

https://youtu.be/V1_rUx_va8k?si=e38sp6cfF6Bvr1Qh

[origami_itto]

SO my impressions in the first video.

His power generation with the pulling back seems... iffy.

I have a bit of a pet peeve about showing only one counter. It's entirely possible to work against a neck clinch from under or inside, but he presents the only option as resisting with the torso and coming over the top. It seems a bit out of touch with practical practice. I could be nit picking.

Another is with the "random punches" the student is moving slowly, and when the teacher executes his technique he moves fast.

Sure that works here in the demonstration, but the application time stretching should be consistent. If your application relies on your movement being 4x faster than your opponent, then you have to make sure you can always move 4x faster than your opponent. If the student is moving slowly, then show me how your movement pattern is superior and works at the same speed, don't have them extend their arm like a sloth and freeze on contact while you zip around like some kind of marvel speedster throwing chain punches.

The counters seem impractical. With your palm on the back of the neck in a clinch, when they apply downward pressure at your joint you feel you're going to be able to apply a meaningful elbow strike? Okay, show me.

Likewise with the counter at the end, just throw a gut punch when they put you in the clinch. Golly it's a wonder they haven't figured that out in Muay Thai yet. He should let somebody know.

Or maybe we should keep it secret, to keep them from figuring it out and, oh, I dunno, staying tight on the clinch and using constant downward pressure to catch that forward movement when you try to punch and feed you a knee.

And like I HATE the "this isn't practical" stuff for applications, but these strain credulity. It seems like the result of too much time evolving in a silo around a presumption of ideas about "other arts" that hasn't actually encountered "other arts" meaningfully.

The combos on the pads looked nice.

[GrahamB]

I think it's all pretty good except when he talks about what wrestlers would do... and then the guy doing it clearly isn't a wrestler. But most CMA demos are like this. Seems unfair to single him out.

[origami_itto]

But most CMA demos are like this.

Big part of the problem. There's compliant and there's "making shit up"

[origami_itto]

I didn't intend to just come in and bag on this guy, either, I'm sure he'd kick my ass, but the demo is just.... ugh.

Like it's got a "good guy gun" "bad guy gun" vibe. Like the opponent will respond a certain way and it will fail, but they will respond the same way and it will work.

[Steve James]

" 扁担 Trad. 扁擔
biǎn dan
carrying pole
shoulder pole"

But we're talking about jargon that doesn't ever translate word for word. I don't think there's any contradiction between whip as in whipping and stick -i.e., using the stick like a whip. Yeah, the final position in SW looks like someone using a whip to carry; but, that doesn't negate how one got to that position. So whip can equal action + position, not one or the other.

Anyway, in the beginning everybody learns the form names as fixed positions, but the art can only work in motion. There are many ways to get from point a to point b. Well, imho. Ymmv.

[everything]

random comment ... both palms are facing down for one of those moves.

[Bob]

https://youtu.be/V1_rUx_va8k?si=e38sp6cfF6Bvr1Qh

https://youtu.be/V1_rUx_va8k?si=3Vd5ozrvWU-qNmsW

The most STREET effective KUNG FU!!! - BAJIQUAN - Period, end of story, watch this!



Will move this up if one wants to see application that are a bit faster.

I think baji has a solid way of developing strong, full body punching power and is useful for various apps

Xiao baji jia, the only set in which both the form and the single movements that employ horse stances and "railroad" like foot stances - this level of training in the form and postures is also shuai jiao apps - With regard to the baji I know the only problem I have seen is unfortunately it is often undertrained - one learns some of the apps but never really trains it in a shuai jiao manner.

The first disciple in our school (1980s) was high school state of Ohio wresting champion - wrestlers are really a tough bunch - highly recommended that serious baji fighters take that up for a year or two

On a side note saw a CMC practitioner demonstrate the palm down application in reverse of the posture using it to push an opponent's arm down a slide beyond to strike the throat - I don't know if it's realistic or not but you can see a similar application in one of the hard palm (tight hand) postures in our linear bagua form.

[Steve James]

On a side note saw a CMC practitioner demonstrate the palm down application in reverse of the posture using it to push an opponent's arm down a slide beyond to strike the throat

Are we talking about White Crane Spreads Wings application? Sounds like a logical combo of that and High Pat on Horse. At least, it could be seen that way.

[Bob]

My mistake Steve James - I thought you were referencing the discussion in another post about the position of the palms in the transition to dan bian - they were arguing the nonfunctional use of the transition with palms facing the ground - the clip was CMC's transition to dan bian.

It's a quick move but it's found at the .29 mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vHzPYee3jU

DH - BaguaZhang, the palms' form (2010)

[wayne hansen]

Thanks for that nice form
The guy talking about Ba ji points out some good things
However nothing there I haven’t learnt in the 3 internals
That’s how they are all meant to be applied