the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

And that's exactly what I mean though, within the context of tai chi you're talking about fantasy or pride duels. There are implicit conventions there, since it's a "gentleman's weapon" and all, grabbing the blade would seem a bit crude, I'd imagine. (Watch Wayne disagree and say that it's a critical part of the method that I don't understand, now that I say they wouldn't do it)

What if I said when sword fingers touch your wrist that's a cue that a blade grab could occur there....

Where is the context where the weapon is useful? Does the Taiji pedagogy meaningfully prepare the student to function in that context? Realistically? HONESTLY, since the topic of "THE TRUTH{tm}" came up recently.

In TRUTH, when was the last time any of us had anybody really try to hit us with anything, sword, stick, sabre, whatever. When is the last time you actually USED these skills you claim to have?

I mean, I don't care about the answer, honestly, that's between you and your own conscience. It's just a question we should ask ourselves when we speak with certainty about what it is we're doing with our time. If TRUTH is important.

Now if it's just a matter of feeling SELF important, I mean carry on. See how delightfully your sparrow skims the water, you must be a fearsome warrior indeed. The grace of his pointed toe.... such power.

Don't get me wrong, I love the weapons forms for what they are, and they impart useful qualities to all kinds of things, but I don't kid myself into thinking that I'm actually going to go out and start cutting people up. The Yi training is the most valuable part of the jian discipline in my opinion, and it's really fun and satisfying. Wish we had a sparring league.

Here's Scott Rodell on the different Chinese jian. I have one of his swords, fwiw.

Here's a jian that seems similar to a tcc jian.

Steve James wrote:Here's a jian that seems similar to a tcc jian.

"This would be effective for unarmored dueling"

Exactly what I've been saying since the topic first came up. Very limited context.

Mine is more substantial with the sharpening scheme I describe.

learned the taiji Jian, a long time ago. among other weaponry


My last taiji teacher when asked about why he didn't teach weapons mentioned that he felt
anything one had in hand after one knew taiji could be used as a weapon...didn't totally agree at the time
although understood his point...

For those I work with.
I do teach, a short staff 2 person set, helps with timing, distancing, flow among other things..
can easily be easily applied using walking canes or umbrellas .

Was thinking of making an umbrella form based on the taiji Jian...





Cheng Man Ching, sword class

Looks fun, very light , and agile.

Does no one else practice with the scabbard?

https://youtu.be/d_MIA1moyvE?si=ypWzRxZI0Zlrqg_C

DiaitaDoc wrote:Does no one else practice with the scabbard?

https://youtu.be/d_MIA1moyvE?si=ypWzRxZI0Zlrqg_C

good to see your work

kudos for showing it...

DiaitaDoc wrote:Does no one else practice with the scabbard?

https://youtu.be/d_MIA1moyvE?si=ypWzRxZI0Zlrqg_C

I do like that idea. I've seen discussion of using it like a buckler for blocking, an interesting dynamic to add for sure.

origami_itto wrote:I do like that idea. I've seen discussion of using it like a buckler for blocking, an interesting dynamic to add for sure.

That’s the idea. Also holding the scabbard with secret sword allows the scabbard to be held more securely against the forearm, and the open end can also be used for a thrusting strike.

I’ve always wondered about the term “secret sword”. It could be 秘剣, which could be read as “secret/mysterious sword”, but as a verb 秘 also carries with it the meaning of “block/obstruct”. So it could also mean blocking/obstructing sword.

There’s also the term 剣韬, which could translate as “sword concealing” or “sword secreting”, but what’s interesting in this case is that 韬 also literally means scabbard, and 剣韬 therefore means “sword scabbard”.

Either way, when I studied Jian, I took the scabbard to be integral to the training and the form.

I don’t know where that comes from but neither the sword or scabbard hand moves well and the stepping is not high level
If you are to use the scabbard it must be In harmony and active at all times

wayne hansen wrote:I don’t know where that comes from but neither the sword or scabbard hand moves well and the stepping is not high level
If you are to use the scabbard it must be In harmony and active at all times

Dude.

That vid was 12 Freaking years ago.

Trust me, I’m MUCH worse now.

Anyway the point was to show the form with the scabbard.

Do better and show us how it’s done, yeah?

DiaitaDoc wrote:

origami_itto wrote:I do like that idea. I've seen discussion of using it like a buckler for blocking, an interesting dynamic to add for sure.

That’s the idea. Also holding the scabbard with secret sword allows the scabbard to be held more securely against the forearm, and the open end can also be used for a thrusting strike.

I’ve always wondered about the term “secret sword”. It could be 秘剣, which could be read as “secret/mysterious sword”, but as a verb 秘 also carries with it the meaning of “block/obstruct”. So it could also mean blocking/obstructing sword.

There’s also the term 剣韬, which could translate as “sword concealing” or “sword secreting”, but what’s interesting in this case is that 韬 also literally means scabbard, and 剣韬 therefore means “sword scabbard”.

Either way, when I studied Jian, I took the scabbard to be integral to the training and the form.

In "Tai Chi Sword: Classical Yang Style" by Yang Jwing Ming he uses jian 剑 jue 诀.

This meaning indicates that the sword fingers are the secret (of the) sword (art), they are not a sword that is a secret, but the practice of projecting energy into the off hand to balance your movements is the secret of properly practicing the form. If you're not doing that, then you're not projecting it into the weapon either.

A martial sword with a metal scabbard would definitely use the sheath for blocking. A wood one, not so much. The Wudang form is very much a "scholar's form" so you don't see that practiced normally.

I think it's a practical idea to use the scabbard. But, I'm not sure it was practiced because sword hilts, iinm, were hung on a belt. Some had a loop on the scabbard preventing it from being used separately. Katanas went through a "belt" (forgot the actual name), but could be drawn without removing the scabbard.

So, part of the issue is cultural. I.e., a lot depends on how the weapons were worn. If someone carried a sword in their hand, it'd make it easier to use both sword and scabbard simultaneously.

I can imagine that using a scabbard might be similar to a double jian form. But, I confess I'm not sure using two swords would be practical in actual usage. Great for coordination practice, though.

The scabbard is there but if you look it is not doing much to assist the main weapon
Look at some espada Yi daga either FMA or European

Ok, but I think the double sticks might be more similar to sword and scabbard. Though, afa espada y daga, the daga/knife fills in the close range spaces. I guess one could use a scabbard to poke. Unlike a knife, it's not going to cut. But, that's not to say it'd be useless. It could block/deflect a light jian.