Tai Ji Tong Bei

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby Royal Dragon on Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:38 pm

No, that is a totally different body method all together.Different body method = different style.
Royal Dragon
Great Old One
 
Posts: 436
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 6:00 am

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby FigureFour on Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:27 pm

that splashing hands clip doesnt really look anything like tongbei. a lot of people say northern mantis looks like tongbei, and i can definitely see that.... but the splashing hands... not really.

the characters of the two styles are completely different. splashing hands looks very boxed in without large extended movements and theres very little shoulder mobility. tongbei concentrates a lot on large extended movements in training and shoulder and back flexibility/mobility, giving the end product a different look.

SPJ or any other wu xing tongbei guys:

ive noticed in more than one wu xing clip (the second one that was posted in the thread for example) that theres a tendency to slip the head from side to side during attacks. is that specifically trained for? if so, why?
FigureFour
Santi
 
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:07 pm

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby AllanF on Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:38 pm

RE Slipping the head to the side. In our wu xing tongbei we don't specifically train it but now that you come to mention it i have seen my teacher do it a couple of time. I'll have to ask him about it.
AllanF

 

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby chrislomas on Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:35 am

Again, I don't *really* care if there is a link I just put it forward as a possibility.

If I were to criticise the gentleman on the video (a Kung Fu Nephew who is clearly learning well and doing a good job under a excellent teacher) it would be that he doesn't extend enough nor use the waist and shoulders enough, all strikes should reach to the maximum using the twist of the body (something I often fail on myself). I think the advanced splashing hands practisioner aims for a very very similar shen fa, using fairly similar methods. For example compare the earlier footage of tongbei to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M091-G3F4Y where sifu McNeil teaches basic applications. Some of the unusual movements (not availible on the internet unfortunately) which I always thought were unique to SH do show up in Tongbei forms. Just interesting thats all.
chrislomas
Anjing
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 9:49 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:27 am

kal wrote:Slightly off-topic, but I believe that according to Bubishi, Lohan Chuan was also one of the styles that gave rise to Okinawan karate. (Southern white crane being another).

Back to the Splashing Hands thing ... does it seem plausible that it's actually some kind of Tonbeiquan in origin?

Compare that original video of Tongbei with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZqIiavozk


Or it could be a type of Fanzi Quan, which is kinda similar to splashing hands too and to tong bei.

Being that splashing hands has some kind of southern china connection, it might be related to Yue Jia San Shou, which is kinda like tong bei and fanzi quan as well.
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:30 am

Royal,

This Qi Tong Bei and White Ape and Five Elements are all from Qing dynasty at the earliest and they are all from the Dong family tong bei quan that Dr. Yan is talking about.

It's not the ancient Tong Bi that the ancient arts that the military used since Warring States times.
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:40 am

kal wrote:Slightly off-topic, but I believe that according to Bubishi, Lohan Chuan was also one of the styles that gave rise to Okinawan karate. (Southern white crane being another).

Back to the Splashing Hands thing ... does it seem plausible that it's actually some kind of Tonbeiquan in origin?

Compare that original video of Tongbei with this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLZqIiavozk


That video looks nothing like Tong Bei that I have seen.

It does look like some kinds of Fanzi -Chuo Jiao, the telltale sign is that raised heel / sideways foot thing he keep doing.

I've seen that foot thing in Cuffed Hands Fanzi Quan and in Mandarin Duck 9 Jade Rings Fanzi-Chuojiao sets.
It's not found in any other styles (except now in this Splashing Hands).
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 824
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby kal on Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:32 am

salcanzonieri wrote:
Or it could be a type of Fanzi Quan, which is kinda similar to splashing hands too and to tong bei.

Being that splashing hands has some kind of southern china connection, it might be related to Yue Jia San Shou, which is kinda like tong bei and fanzi quan as well.


Thanks Sal,

Highly interesting. As always, your historical knowledge is appreciated.

Now this *may* be a total red herring, but I did notice the words "san shou" in your post above. It's interesting because the Chinese characters for the style named Splashing Hands are apparently San soo or Zan Shou?

Any connection?
kal
Santi
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:17 am

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby chrislomas on Thu Jul 17, 2008 12:38 am

Yes, Sal, Chuo Jiao is an interesting comparision (splashing Hands is also very big on the 'Tiger Tail kick/Donkey kick that seems to crop up alot in Chuo Jiao).

The character, I believe (no real Chinese ability) is Jian (splatter/Splash)(?).
chrislomas
Anjing
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 9:49 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby Riv on Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:30 am

Is there any proof of Splashing Hands ever existing in China?
Riv

 

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby SPJ on Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:44 pm

Just for the sake of discussion.

1. The head movement, we stress that the 3 points aligned or san jian xiang zhao. The nose, the lead fist and the lead foot are aligned so that our chest/abdomen or vital areas are shielded/protected by our hands. In that sense, our head would shift/move with our lead hand. We switch roles of both hands very rapidly, may be that is why the head would shift, too.

In general, tong bei hand movements are very fast and difficult to see, so people usually just see the movement of our shoulders as if they are walking or zhou bang zhi. walking shoulders.

--

2. Tong bei power starts with deng and ta on our front sole and then heel side of the feet. When we deng or step on front soles, we are readying our posture/move. When we land our heels (ta), we also land our fist or palms. The rest of the body is totally relaxed and transmitting the power generating from feet stepping on the ground, all the way up and stored in the shoulder joints and released or expressed on fingers, palm or fist. I dun no how this is seeable with eyes. But this is how tong bei moves. In the beginning of practice, we do see bigger movement of the whole body like a whip or chains and suddenly tensed at the end. however, later with practice, they may not be evident or seeable with advanced practitioners.

--

just to add some thoughts.

;) :)
User avatar
SPJ
Wuji
 
Posts: 1257
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 7:20 am
Location: Orange, CA

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby kal on Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:54 am

salcanzonieri wrote:
It does look like some kinds of Fanzi -Chuo Jiao, the telltale sign is that raised heel / sideways foot thing he keep doing.

I've seen that foot thing in Cuffed Hands Fanzi Quan and in Mandarin Duck 9 Jade Rings Fanzi-Chuojiao sets.
It's not found in any other styles (except now in this Splashing Hands).


Interesting post. I did a search on Chuojiao+Fanzi and this came up:
http://www.canadaeastwushu.com/styles/CJFQ1.html

Image

Is the foot position the same as the "shuffle" in Splashing Hands?
Last edited by kal on Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
kal
Santi
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:17 am

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby chrislomas on Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:26 am

In fact except for the stance being very slightly more elongated, the whole posture is identical to what we refer to as uppercut, one of our more common basics. Thanks for that Kal.
chrislomas
Anjing
 
Posts: 133
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 9:49 am
Location: Manchester UK

Re: Tai Ji Tong Bei

Postby kal on Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:14 am

Some more searching turned up this interesting videoclip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmP2aJKHBMM



It says it's the 1st set of Dongbei Chuojiao. Seems to be lots of those "shuffle" footwork moves in there. Also noticed it sounds like the guy is slapping himself while doing some strikes.

Could there be some connection here?
kal
Santi
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:17 am

Previous

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests