Jin Gang Ba Shi Li Taiji Quan - Master Zhou jingxuan

[Bob]

Qing long quan (Green Dragon fist) is an advanced form in Jin Gang Ba Sahi. One way to practice is is in a slow flowing movement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlP3-N__ ... re=channel



Late Grandmaster Tian Jin Zhong - JinGang Green Dragon Sword
At 1984 Tianjin Nankai district T.V station made a documentary on martial arts. One of the Grandmasters they portrayed was Tian jinzhong (田金钟). Grandmaster Tian (68 years old at that time) demonstrated a few Baji quan moves and Jingang sword play. In this video we can see JinGang's Qing long jian (Green dragon sword) which is Jingangbashi's most advanced and complicated form due to it's Shen-fa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRh2SxWG ... annel_page



One of the 8 basic (hard) hands of Jingang bashi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEsVzLjS ... re=channel



Master Zhou performing one section of Li style Taijiquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-inaa-VBQnM&NR=1

[Mephisto]

Zhou Jingxuan is pretty damned slick. If I ever make it out to Tianjin I'll definitely be checking him out with the hope of picking up some oldschool pigua.

[Andy_S]

Bob:

That first clip is a thing of beauty.

I have never thought that "other" MA done slowly could rival Taijiquan's sophistication, but watching this chap's spiralling flow of coil and uncoil, I stand corrected.

Masterly.

[Bob]

Andy_S:

Yes, when I first saw that I also was struck by the beauty and grace but I quickly came to my senses realizing no one could fight like that! Tongue and Cheek LOL

I don't anything about these guys other than I liked some of their material very much.

Maybe Yuen Ming knows about them.

[mixjourneyman]

Jingang who posts here is a student of Master Zhou.
I think he (Zhou) is amazing.

[Taijikid]

Bob:

That first clip is a thing of beauty.

I have never thought that "other" MA done slowly could rival Taijiquan's sophistication, but watching this chap's spiralling flow of coil and uncoil, I stand corrected.

Masterly.

Andy,

You should check out the parallel form posted almost three years ago!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ9qKk--Us

[Yuen-Ming]

Qing long quan (Green Dragon fist) is an advanced form in Jin Gang Ba Sahi. One way to practice is is in a slow flowing movement

[...]

Hello Bob,

Zhou is certainly skilled in what he does but it seems to me that he is only 'mimicking' Li style i.e. he doesn't seem to know it. I may be wrong of course, in which case I would change my statement and say that I prefer his baji

Their Shaolin comes from the same line as Li Style's Shaolin (Neilan Pai) but not the same person, so many sets correspond to those in Li style (shaolin) curriculum.
However, those in Tian's line have a baji flavour while those in Li style are very much Taiji-ated, so the final result is quite different.

YM

[Jingang]

Hello everyone
Many thanks for the interest in my shifu's videos.

From what I understand of Li ruidong's history is that there was never a real connection between his Jingang and his Taiji. His Taiji came from Wang lanting (student of yang luchen) and his Jingang came from a monk who lost to Wang lanting. After the monk lost he wanted to exchange knowledge with Wang. The monk learned Taiji but Wang was not interested in Hard martial arts so his sent the monk to teach Li ruidong. Li's Taijiquan is the outcome of his vast knowledge in martial arts and probably a combination of many arts. Than again I might be mistaken with this whole story...

The slow practice of the Qing long quan (green dragon fist) is not influenced at all from Li's taiji quan. As far as I know Li's followers do not practice this form. We usually practice this form slowly in order to better master the complicated body mechanics and flow of motion and combine them with intent.

Zhou shifu learned Li style taiji from Li zhaoyin (Li zi qin's student) from Li ruidong's lineage and Jingang-Bashi from Tian jinzhong's (Shi yushan's student) lineage so there is no connection between the two.

[sinkpoint]

I like how he wears a proper uniform now, compare to before he's always in that Chinese open shirt looking like some random guy in the streets.
great videos. I remember his miao dao was particularly nice.

[salcanzonieri]

Hello everyone
Many thanks for the interest in my shifu's videos.

From what I understand of Li ruidong's history is that there was never a real connection between his Jingang and his Taiji. His Taiji came from Wang lanting (student of yang luchen) and his Jingang came from a monk who lost to Wang lanting. After the monk lost he wanted to exchange knowledge with Wang. The monk learned Taiji but Wang was not interested in Hard martial arts so his sent the monk to teach Li ruidong. Li's Taijiquan is the outcome of his vast knowledge in martial arts and probably a combination of many arts. Than again I might be mistaken with this whole story...

The slow practice of the Qing long quan (green dragon fist) is not influenced at all from Li's taiji quan. As far as I know Li's followers do not practice this form. We usually practice this form slowly in order to better master the complicated body mechanics and flow of motion and combine them with intent.

Zhou shifu learned Li style taiji from Li zhaoyin (Li zi qin's student) from Li ruidong's lineage and Jingang-Bashi from Tian jinzhong's (Shi yushan's student) lineage so there is no connection between the two.

Strange story that Wang Lanting learned Jingang Bashi from this mysterious monk [name is thought to be Hui Hai (慧海) Fan (a Dragon Zen - Long Chan - 龙禅 sect monk], since Wang had learned Ba Fan Men / Chuojiao already in Hebei from master Zhou Xun, of which that style already teaches Jingang Bashi as part of its foundation (during the time period he had learned it).

[Jingang]

Hello everyone
Many thanks for the interest in my shifu's videos.

From what I understand of Li ruidong's history is that there was never a real connection between his Jingang and his Taiji. His Taiji came from Wang lanting (student of yang luchen) and his Jingang came from a monk who lost to Wang lanting. After the monk lost he wanted to exchange knowledge with Wang. The monk learned Taiji but Wang was not interested in Hard martial arts so his sent the monk to teach Li ruidong. Li's Taijiquan is the outcome of his vast knowledge in martial arts and probably a combination of many arts. Than again I might be mistaken with this whole story...

The slow practice of the Qing long quan (green dragon fist) is not influenced at all from Li's taiji quan. As far as I know Li's followers do not practice this form. We usually practice this form slowly in order to better master the complicated body mechanics and flow of motion and combine them with intent.

Zhou shifu learned Li style taiji from Li zhaoyin (Li zi qin's student) from Li ruidong's lineage and Jingang-Bashi from Tian jinzhong's (Shi yushan's student) lineage so there is no connection between the two.

Strange story that Wang Lanting learned Jingang Bashi from this mysterious monk [name is thought to be Hui Hai (慧海) Fan (a Dragon Zen - Long Chan - 龙禅 sect monk], since Wang had learned Ba Fan Men / Chuojiao already in Hebei from master Zhou Xun, of which that style already teaches Jingang Bashi as part of its foundation (during the time period he had learned it).

Read again, I didn't say Wang Lanting learned Jingang Bashi. I'm not quiet sure I understand what you say here: "of which that style already teaches Jingang Bashi as part of its foundation". What style has Jingang Bashi as foundation? Does it look anything like the Jingang from Shi yushan's lineage or Li ruidong's?

[Wanderingdragon]

Master Zhou is another man who's clips I watch repeatdly, as his Kung Fu is obviously authentic. His offerings on youtube are generous and informative, you can see his love for the art, his knowledge and experience come through loud and clear. Given the opportunity , I would study with him in a heartbeat .

[salcanzonieri]

Hello everyone
Many thanks for the interest in my shifu's videos.

From what I understand of Li ruidong's history is that there was never a real connection between his Jingang and his Taiji. His Taiji came from Wang lanting (student of yang luchen) and his Jingang came from a monk who lost to Wang lanting. After the monk lost he wanted to exchange knowledge with Wang. The monk learned Taiji but Wang was not interested in Hard martial arts so his sent the monk to teach Li ruidong. Li's Taijiquan is the outcome of his vast knowledge in martial arts and probably a combination of many arts. Than again I might be mistaken with this whole story...

The slow practice of the Qing long quan (green dragon fist) is not influenced at all from Li's taiji quan. As far as I know Li's followers do not practice this form. We usually practice this form slowly in order to better master the complicated body mechanics and flow of motion and combine them with intent.

Zhou shifu learned Li style taiji from Li zhaoyin (Li zi qin's student) from Li ruidong's lineage and Jingang-Bashi from Tian jinzhong's (Shi yushan's student) lineage so there is no connection between the two.

Strange story that Wang Lanting learned Jingang Bashi from this mysterious monk [name is thought to be Hui Hai (慧海) Fan (a Dragon Zen - Long Chan - 龙禅 sect monk], since Wang had learned Ba Fan Men / Chuojiao already in Hebei from master Zhou Xun, of which that style already teaches Jingang Bashi as part of its foundation (during the time period he had learned it).

Read again, I didn't say Wang Lanting learned Jingang Bashi. I'm not quiet sure I understand what you say here: "of which that style already teaches Jingang Bashi as part of its foundation". What style has Jingang Bashi as foundation? Does it look anything like the Jingang from Shi yushan's lineage or Li ruidong's?

What I am saying is that I find it strange that this mystery monk taught Li (or Wang) the Jingang Bashi, since Wang and thus Li was have already have known it, since Wang was Li's Ba Fan Men (chuojiao / fanzi quan) teacher, and this style already has this set and it was taought to beginnners in the Hebei are
It's entirely possible, but strange.
All Jingang Bashi is basically the same, variations amongst lineages, but they clearly derive from the same source, especially in Hebei area.

[Jingang]

Well, I'd love to see a jingang-bashi that looks like what we do and didn't come from Li ruidong's lineage. I'm pretty sure you confuse Jingang Quan and Jingang-Bashi because both have Jingang in their name. Originally Jingang-bashi was called shaolin nei-yuan quan fa and the name Jingang-Bashi was adopted later on. So far, few people who contacted me and claimed that they also do a Jingang style turned out to be jingang quan practitioners or other styles that have jingang in their name. Jingang is a Buddhist name (vajrapany - see pic in my username) and is used in many different martial arts (I even heard of jingang in xingyiquan, shaolin jingang-quan and Tibetan white crane lion roar) that have connection with Buddhism or shaolin. I think you are probably also confusing the two. having forms name ba tang jingang jia (八趟金刚架) & ba tang jingang chui (八趟金刚捶) does not make them jingang-bashi . As I said before, not everything that has jingang in it's name is the same thing. I've watched Jingang forms of Chuo-jiao (on the net they are called Jingang-quan, which is very different than jingang-bashi)

I do not believe Jingang-Bashi can be the beginners level for Chuo jiao practitioners cause it has very advanced shenfa and it's level of sophistication is very high.

In my lineage of Jingan bashi we have 8 basic hands (with 8 variations), 64 hard hands, 64 soft hands (which are pretty advanced material) 8 linking forms few advanced forms (like qing long quan) and different weapon forms, in total it's more material than Chuojiao or fanzi quan have all together. I doubt this huge number of material can be a beginners level of any art.

My teacher, Master Zhou, used to do Yan qing fan zi and Chuo jiao (He did hebei style) when he was a teenager and he claims there is no Jingang-bashi in it. He only started learning Jingang-bashi after he met Master Shen jiarui (who never did chuo jiao).

you claim that: "All Jingang Bashi is basically the same, variations amongst lineages, but they clearly derive from the same source, especially in Hebei area." well, it would be nice if you could backup your words with some links to these so called jingang-bashi arts videos maybe even a website with the names of the moves.

As someone who also practiced chuo-jiao for a while i can vouch you it's very different than jingang-bashi.

In conclusion, you are talking about an exercise or forms named after a common name in martial arts (vajrapani) and confuse it with a different martial art which uses the same part of that name in it's modern name.

[D_Glenn]

Kang Gewu's research into the origins of Baguazhang says that Dong Hai Chuan probably learned Jingang Ba Shi when he was younger and thankfully we have these clips of someone with a high level of gongfu so we can actually see a connection and possible influence it had on his Baguazhang.

This clip in particular shows a very good basis for where Bagua's flanking to the side and turning around to the back came from:





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