The purpose of Pushing Hands.

[Bodywork]

The more interest discussion may be "what's next?" If you have developed listening, following, sticky, yeilding, ... all those nice abilities through your PH, what will you train next?

Grappling, kicking, punching, choking, knives, sticks...it's all the same.

[ashe]

Good clip.

i disagree on this one. what ever ZMC had, this guy doesn't have much of a method thats got much applicability to anything martial.

[ashe]

the chasing hands is exactly what caught my eye and how even maneged is guilty of it here, or at least what he's doing only works because his student is chasing his hands.

there's a really clear example at 4:52 where he simply drops his hand, and since his student is chasing hands he falls forward a bit, whereas dropping like that without some fullness at the point will get you KTFO out by someone who's looking to strike you and not just touch hands.

[AllanF]

For me the purpose of PH is to be accustomed to 'dong jin' (understanding energy). Not just in your opponent but also and more importantly in yourself. Using the incoming energy channeling it through the body to the dan tian to the feet and out through through the opposite side. This has to happen in an instant and is used to help train unbalancing skills and fali skills. I also agree with John Wang that it is a way to set up a finish move. ie if you have unbalanced the opponent correctly then it is easy for you to enter and finish.

The other skill that is developed is 'Chou si jin'. Reeling silk energy, I asked my teacher what he meant today basically he said 'chou si' is internal via the marrow in the bones. Beginning in the kidneys then the ming men to the shoulder, elbow wrist and finger tips. When questioned about the difference between 'chou si' and 'chan si' he said that 'chan si' was more to do with the muscle turning and reeling as opposed to the internal marrow doing the same. The former 'chou si' being more subtle.

[waterdaan]

Warning:
This is not an objective message!
Nathan is my friend and teacher, so I’m biased
And excuse my English

The DVD is great, you should all just buy it!
Buy the DVD to learn/see something else or buy it to support a compañero (I don’t think this word/concept exist in English, but I could be wrong)

From the website: http://www.taichicorner.net
Three Dimensional Yielding DVD: The Secret of Tai Chi Fighting
These exercises are designed for ANYONE from ANY SYSTEM to simply learn how to
remove the target that your opponent is trying to attack; whether the person is trying
to strike, grapple, throw or lock.


To give you an idea about the DVD;
This is an instructional DVD
I think it tries to teach
* Warm-up/chi kung exercises; for practicing bodymechanics (I think you guys call it shen fa)
* 4 postures (ward off, roll back, yield chest, push and press) there are a lot of different exercises to practice these movements/principles
Emphasis on 3 dimensional yielding (wardoff rollback yieldchest)
* a short taichi form
* demonstration of some free pushing

The part on youtube: Replacing is the last bit of the 4 postures; doing the 4 postures with one hand

Buy it, or better yet, do a workshop with Nathan, see the website for workshop dates
if you’re in europe, Nathan’s going to spend the summer in Europe, he’ll be teaching in France, Spain, England and Germany

By the way, Mario Napoli will be teaching at Nathan’s school 11,12 of july

[Sprint]

Realistically an aggressive attacker will often be able to get into your torso for a strike or a grab.

I'd love to see a video start with the taiji instructor saying "I'd like to introduce you to xyz who is a State champion wrestler. He's going to try and either throw me or put on a lock and I'm going to show you how, using push hands principles, you defend against that.."

Then I'd like to see a discussion with said wrestler explaining what he was doing and why he could not get it to work, or why he did get get his technique going and why the taiji instructor could not defend it.

Then I'd like to see the same again against a boxer.

[johnwang]

Evertime that we have PH discussion, it always give me something different to think about. If the purpose of PH is trying to understand the "energy flow" then why can't we try it in a more realistic situation such as "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest"? Will you be able to get "the ability to detect energy flow" and "combat ability" at the same time (kill 2 birds with 1 stone)?

What's the difference between "a push to the chest" vs. "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest". Should you still be able to build a bridge on that arm or leg and continue your stick, yield, follow, and listen?

[H2O]

We do try it in a more realistic situation, but then it's called sparring. Once the idea of fighting comes into play, it's not push hands anymore.

A lot of people lift weights in the gym, but I've never heard anyone suggest that people go out and beat the hell outa each other with 45 pound barbell's. That's because lifting weights makes you strong, it doesn't teach you to fight.

Yet with push hands, everyone seems to think it's for fighting. I don't think it is. It gives you one hell of an advantage over the other guy, just like being stronger does, but it's not fighting.

[ashe]

If the purpose of PH is trying to understand the "energy flow" then why can't we try it in a more realistic situation such as "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest"? Will you be able to get "the ability to detect energy flow" and "combat ability" at the same time (kill 2 birds with 1 stone)?

What's the difference between "a push to the chest" vs. "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest". Should you still be able to build a bridge on that arm or leg and continue your stick, yield, follow, and listen?

that is how we train our sticky hands in ILC.

at least those of us who train for full application. the other folks who are only interested in health and meditation not so much.

[Chris Fleming]

[johnwang]

lifting weights makes you strong, it doesn't teach you to fight.

Throwing your dummy will make you strong, at the sametime it can also improve your throwing skill. I prefer to work on my single head weight bar than my bench press (I do have 2 set of bench press equipments at home - 1 indoor and 1 outdoor). Killing 2 birds with 1 stone is alway my favor choice. I do believe that Taiji PH can envolve a bit instead of staying at the same spot and not moving forward.

More moving step PH will be better than just stationary PH IMO.

[H2O]

You do realize Nathan is a CC Chen guy, right? We do a whole lot of exactly what's in that video.

[marvin8]

Evertime that we have PH discussion, it always give me something different to think about. If the purpose of PH is trying to understand the "energy flow" then why can't we try it in a more realistic situation such as "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest"? Will you be able to get "the ability to detect energy flow" and "combat ability" at the same time (kill 2 birds with 1 stone)?

What's the difference between "a push to the chest" vs. "a punch to the head" or "a kick to the chest". Should you still be able to build a bridge on that arm or leg and continue your stick, yield, follow, and listen?

MMA and boxing does this with a trainer holding pads, moving, and feeding energy/force starting without contact. These fighters are able to transfer these listening, control and combat skills to a real fight. Technical sparring and sparring is done, as well.

Here's an updated video of Nathan Menaged.

Published on May 14, 2016
An example of soft play for instructional purposes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIlsltTNzfs