Barlow Xingyi and a question

[Josealb]

Heya Graham old pal. I want to ask you something regarding your stepping/power generation. Honest question here, dont go all defensive.

I spoke to Paul once (Pandrews1982) and he explained a bit of it to me. But It felt odd here when you did Zuan and Pao...ill explain myself. The way you guys generate power is more of a falling forward of the torso/chest area, pulling the emergency breaks with the front foot, Heel toe toe.

How does that work when you do Zuan and Pao, or any other upwardish type of jing? Your body falls while your arms go up, to my eyes. So the only thing that drills upward are your arms, while your whole weight goes down.

I know theres logic to this. Maybe Paul can explain also. Of course, you dont have to if you dont want...im just curious about methods. Lately ive been exposed to different methods and i find myself ever more flexible to other points of view.

Thanks in advance.

Your clip: (remove if you feel im pulling your chain..which im NOT)

[Dmitri]

Dammit Jose, stop pulling Graham's chain, you cruel bastard!

[Josealb]

hey..HEY...im serious. Just this once.

[Dmitri]

I know, I'm kidding... Just couldn't help it.
Sorry to disrupt.

[Wanderingdragon]

now I'm totally baffled, where would the power come from if not from the ground?

[GrahamB]

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[mrtoes]

Looks solid Graham.

Jose, I'm a little confused by your confusion about how the arms can rise whilst accompanied by the sinking of the body. The first time I was taught water fist there was a very overt sinking through the kua to the feet that accompanies the rising of the arms, the feeling was kinda like a spiraling one way down to the legs and the corkscrew goes the other way up to the arms. I don't remember it so well as it was a while back. The style I do at the moment is very different but also emphasises a sinking, particularly with the upward strikes. I've also seen another form which emphasised pushing off the feet into the drilling fist so I guess there's a few ways to do it. I'm not familiar with the style of fire fist that Graham does so can't really comment on that.

Horses for courses I reckon.

Matthew.

[Josealb]

Mrtoes,

The detail about zuan is that the whole body drills, the hand is just the tip of the corkscrew. But, im no expert and there certainly are more ways to skin a cat.

Thanks for explaining G. Still, ive tried to move like that to understand the method, and of course im doing it wrong, because i feel zero weight shooting out of my strike...everything gets stuck in the kua. Actually, i was wondering if you never felt a bit of pain on your hip or lower back, since you seem to keep your hip a bit back when you step like that and it looks like force gets stuck there when i do it.

I know..im a total newb in barlow xingyi. Thats the reason.

Dont mind Du..hes just talks sometimes when he should listen.

[Pandrews1982]

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[GrahamB]

Deleted.

[GrahamB]

Deleted.

[Josealb]

P explained it pretty well, i get most of it now. One thing i still dont get though..

This type of stepping and generating power makes complete sense when sending the power in a downward fashion, from a distance (that why momentum is important, like G said, right?). And according to P, when you add subtle circle and spiral work to the back and body, this can be sent in other directions as well. But, adjusting this to other directions feels extremely awkward to me. I dont feel any rising power at all, since the ground is disconnected and my weight is falling. Also, i cannot feel any way of issuing short distance/no distance power....since again...these things come from the ground up. There are other methods that work like a charm for these examples...and they dont feel like im using a spoon like a knife.

Im sure the the details behind these thing i dont understand should be the cream of what you guys practice, and its one of those things that need be felt, not theoretically explained on a forum. Ill play a bit with it see if i turn on a lightbulb. Thanks G and P for taking the time.

[Pandrews1982]

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[Josealb]

the foot is still in the air as the strike lands so the momentum of the body mass is in the strike not in the ground. No need for emergency breaks if you hit someone either, they will absorb at least some of the movement but also take the energy as impact.

If you (i.e. the forum, not P) are interested, you can see what P is talking about here at the end of my 'Beng and taking hits' video - it's hard to see, since it's quick, but my foot hasn't 'landed' when I hit him at the end of the clip. It lands after the hit has started. And yes, I'm probably using shitty heel toe, but that's a mistake on my part. So many details to remember.....

Woa, i just read this..

That certainly goes against the xingyiquan tide, doesnt it? Strike hitting before the foot landing. Also, the emergency break, is an essential component in ground-up generation...Baji expresses it very well. The classics dont say "step like stomping a poisonous insect" for nothing. I just like to use the term "break", because when the wheels of a car stop dead, the whole car goes forward that extra inch, and things go flying forward. Everything goes up and out the impact point.

But this may very well be the difference that matters in the different methods...hmm....food for thought. Will play with it.

[eastpaw]

Question to anyone and everyone:

Is a zuanquan that only drills up easy to displace?