Sambo vs. BJJ

[grzegorz]

Long Intro...but worth the wait.

http://www.gezi.us/index.php?option=com ... tlink&id=6

[Areios]

some intense fights. It's strange that the russians don't have that good conditioning. But they mostly ruled the stand up part.

[Kurt Robbins]

Thanks for posting that. A lot of BJJ guys neglect their throws and are too complacent about staying on their back (just my opinion). The Sambo guys have some nice throws in that video. That video showed why I don't like the Gi, too much of it's own game and does not transfer well to MMA and an opponent can stall and just hold your Gi.
I've been working so much on stand up preparing for an upcoming fight that I have not rolled much lately. I miss it.

[grzegorz]

Thanks for posting that. A lot of BJJ guys neglect their throws and are too complacent about staying on their back (just my opinion). The Sambo guys have some nice throws in that video. That video showed why I don't like the Gi, too much of it's own game and does not transfer well to MMA and an opponent can stall and just hold your Gi.
I've been working so much on stand up preparing for an upcoming fight that I have not rolled much lately. I miss it.

Yeah no gi can be more exciting to watch, but for Russians in particular where they're from it's very likely someone is going to have some type of jacket on. So it makes sense to me why they train with a kurtka. But sambo players also do a lot of jacket-less stuff as well, I guess it depends on the tournament.

I do agree about BJJ players neglecting their takedowns, it's as if they think they're easy or something.

That's the main theme I see here with a few exceptions of course, Sambo guy slams BJJ guy and on the ground BJJ guy dominates.

Unfortunately some BJJ players snipped the parts where they do well and put those on youtube to make it look like a victory for BJJ, but whatever...

[Fubo]

Yeah, it's a good thing not to become completely dependent on the jacket, but knowing how to use it is a very useful thing in a place that's cold half the year round. I think ease of transitioning to no gi is really dependent on one's understanding and ability to throw in a general sense... A few of the teenage guys at my Judo school took up wrestling in high school and dominated everyone there. They mentioned that transitioning to no gi from doing only gi practice was pretty smooth and easy. That being said, I do think that a lot of Judo schools should add the practice of no gi to their classes.

[Areios]

well I started with no gi and it was a fast transition to gi. And then almost I trained for a year with just gi, and I had a realy big problem to get used to nogi again

[grzegorz]

well I started with no gi and it was a fast transition to gi. And then almost I trained for a year with just gi, and I had a realy big problem to get used to nogi again

It's always harder going from more to less than it is to go from less to more.

I'm with the Gracies on this one. They like the gi because the way they see it there are more techniques with the gi so with the gi you basically learn more, but if you always train gi-less then you're not going to learn the "gi-only" techniques so you won't be aware of all the ways you can use the gi, for example you won't learn collar chokes.

Of course whenever you switch you're going to be at a disadvantage but that's the way it goes. I suppose the best way would be to train both...

[josh]

regarding the "gi vs. no-gi" debate, Jake posted a really nice piece on his blog about Eddie Bravo that contains some interesting stuff. as a BJJ/grappling noob, I found it very thought-provoking:
http://threeharmonies.blogspot.com/2009 ... ining.html

[grzegorz]

regarding the "gi vs. no-gi" debate, Jake posted a really nice piece on his blog about Eddie Bravo that contains some interesting stuff. as a BJJ/grappling noob, I found it very thought-provoking:
http://threeharmonies.blogspot.com/2009 ... ining.html

Thanks for posting that.

There are some really good points there. I've always been amazed how wrestlers can make themselves feels twice as heavy when they pin you. It makes sense that this comes from the fact that they understand "Clinching and squeezing while moving into scoring position and clincing and squeezing while choking someone out....To be super offensive no-gi you must develope your clinches AND master all clinches. Every second you train with the gi you are not training your clinch. You are training your yank and pull. Totally different."

Btw, I don't understand why guys keep their guards closed when someone stands and are surprised when they get slammed. The idea that you have to hold someone up while they're setting you up for an armbar is insane.

I guess the second guy had the right idea of just stepping off the mat.

Also I like the defense against the single leg in the match after the slam. Sambo guys have some good counters against the single, some of which you don't see in wrestling because the gi makes it easier to pick up a guy who is shooting in on you.

[Butterball]

Nice, thats my instructor who won that last match

[Kurt Robbins]

Your teacher's got class.

[johnwang]

A lot of BJJ guys neglect their throws and are too complacent about staying on their back (just my opinion).

This futher prove that

- "ground game" will destroy the "throwing art".
- nobody can throw you if you just lie down backward by yourself.

Why does anybody want to learn any throwing skill if all he/she needs is just "pull guard"? When the BJJ guy does not even try to resist the throw, it hurts my eyes just to watch it. It just feels like the guy doesn't care about "body structure". It's very umpleasnt to watch this clip

It's fun to watch a

- boxing match because both guys try to hit each other (both guys try not to be hit).
- SC match because both guys try to throw each other (both guys try not to be thrown).
- Sanshou/Sanda match because both guys try to hit and throw each other (both guys try not to be hit and thrown).

It's not plesant to watch a

- BJJ match because both guys don't try to hit or throw each other. You won't see throwing skill and resistance against throwing skill.
- Judo match because both guys don't intend to remain balance after throwing. You won't see good balance after throwing.

[Ian]

I kinda have to agree with JW. I love grappling, but I don't like it when

-the ref has to keep asking the guy to stand up
-one guy's straddling the other guy like a koala for a good 30 seconds
-people intentionally fall down when being thrown

[grzegorz]

- Judo match because both guys don't intend to remain balance after throwing. You won't see good balance after throwing.

I hear you, one thing I like about sambo is that you get the most points for a throw if stay on your feet when you complete it.

Very practical for "da streets."

[Butterball]

A lot of BJJ guys neglect their throws and are too complacent about staying on their back (just my opinion).

This futher prove that

- "ground game" will destroy the "throwing art".
- nobody can throw you if you just lie down backward by yourself.

Why does anybody want to learn any throwing skill if all he/she needs is just "pull guard"? When the BJJ guy does not even try to resist the throw, it hurts my eyes just to watch it. It just feels like the guy doesn't care about "body structure". It's very umpleasnt to watch this clip

It's fun to watch a

- boxing match because both guys try to hit each other (both guys try not to be hit).
- SC match because both guys try to throw each other (both guys try not to be thrown).
- Sanshou/Sanda match because both guys try to hit and throw each other (both guys try not to be hit and thrown).

It's not plesant to watch a

- BJJ match because both guys don't try to hit or throw each other. You won't see throwing skill and resistance against throwing skill.
- Judo match because both guys don't intend to remain balance after throwing. You won't see good balance after throwing.

You could just as easily say that a boxing match is unpleasant to watch because they have gigantic gloves on and aren't allowed to grab at all, or that a SC match is unpleasant to watch because you are not allowed to continue anything on the ground after throwing (just in case you attempt to throw someone and for whatever reason you cannot stay on your feet) or that San da/San shou is unpleasant to watch because you are not allowed to do anything on the ground either.

You could say that a Bjj match is pleasant to watch because you are allowed to do pretty much any takedowns that you want in most tournaments (minus leg scissors or spiking someone) or have the freedom to pull guard if you like and you can continue on the ground for the rest of the match if you like, or you can stand up and work takedowns if you like or you can practice a variety of submissions in both Gi and no gi matches without as much regulation as other grappling sports.