Karate is Internal Too!

[bigphatwong]

Saw this last night and thought it was pretty wild. The guy's got some serious spinal wave going on.

[bigphatwong]

There was another one where he does some slick gun disarms...I'll post it when I find it.

[C.J.Wang]

What he does is more akin to the dynamic tension training of southern CMA. In the beinning and the end where he demonstrates the ability to subtlely control the musculature in the deltoid, trapezius regions important in maintaining stability in the upper limbs, I wouldn't consider those spinal waves.

[bigphatwong]

Found it. WATAAAAH!

[bigphatwong]

C.J.,

right, I guess I meant sucking and spitting. Terminology fail!

[Chris Fleming]

That first one was nice. I saw that one back some years ago. Other parts had the master demonstrating some of their kata, including animal forms and even a drunken style. This was all Okinawa-Te. Looked just like some Shaolin kung fu so you can clearly see where it came from before some styles like Shotokan with changes to their movements came about.

[bigphatwong]

Interesting, although I'd suspect the differences are due to having different ancestors (Shotokan is a derivitive of Shorin Ryu).

Incidentally, I wonder what happened to the original Pangainoon style of Kung Fu. Is it still practiced anywhere in China?

[Doc Stier]

Interesting, although I'd suspect the differences are due to having different ancestors (Shotokan is a derivitive of Shorin Ryu).

Well, actually, Shaolin (Northern/Mandarin) = Siu-Lum (Southern/Cantonese) = Shorin (Okinawan/Japanese). The same written Chinese characters are used for all three names, but their spoken pronunciation of the characters differs in each language.

Thus, like the Kobayashi Shorin-Ryu I studied years ago, most of the Okinawan karate styles, and their Japanese karate-do derivatives, like Shotokan and others, do in fact share a common ancestral lineage source. In many cases, they even teach the same form sets, with minor performance differences, and sometimes use different names for the same form sets.

For example, there are three related form sets of southern Chinese origin which most Okinawan styles call Naihanchi Kata, whereas mainland Japanese styles like Shotokan call these same form sets Tekki Kata. Here's one of the Okinawan Shorin-Ryu versions I learned back in the day:



Most of these traditional Okinawan, Japanese, and Korean styles are clearly only slight variations on a common theme that constitutes a 'family' of related martial art styles. So much so, in fact, that these various styles bear a closer physical resemblance to one another than the major styles of Tai-Chi Chuan do with one another!

[Andy_S]

Glad to see that Shorin-ryu chap has made it to the Tube. While the kata he shows is fairly standard, I would be astonished if Doc learned it the way he does it here, though. We discussed him on the old EF some years back: The guy was on record as saying nobody else in Shorin moves the way he does; he admits that what he does is unorthodox, though I don't recall any mention of Chinese influence.

His whippy, 'circulirified' full body movement and clear use of dantien make him one of the best internal guys I have seen. Albeit, he does karate...

[Doc Stier]

The guy was on record as saying nobody else in Shorin moves the way he does; he admits that what he does is unorthodox, though I don't recall any mention of Chinese influence.

His whippy, 'circularified' full body movement and clear use of dantien make him one of the best internal guys I have seen. Albeit, he does karate...

Your opinion here reveals obvious inexperience with Okinawan Karate-Do in general, and with Shorin-Ryu in particular. Such performances are not as rare as you think among those who acquire a solid expertise of the style.

While acknowledging that I never achieved a Master Grade level of proficiency in Shorin-Ryu, I was nonetheless taught to emulate such performances of the katas up to a Sho-Dan level. Every serious practitioner aspires to replicate such Gold Standard skills in their art. I was and am a serious practitioner.

Here's my teacher's teacher, Yamashita Tadashi Hanshi, performing Shorin-Ryu applications with speed and power, although certainly not at full speed or power for Yamashita Sensei. Note his soft defensive hands and circular transitions between combination techniques. Enjoy!

[Andy_S]

SNIP
Your opinion here reveals obvious inexperience with Okinawan Karate-Do in general, and with Shorin-Ryu in particular. Such performances are not as rare as you think among those who acquire a solid expertise of the style.
SNIP

No argument about my inexperience, but the comments above are based on what the guy himself says. Have you watched the first clip you posted all the way through? At the end, he does a split screen of the 'conventional' manner of kata execution and the way he does it. The guy was also quoted as saying nobody else in Shorin moves like him, but a few Goju people do, IIRC.

In the YouTube dicussion of his vids, one of his students also makes the point that this master has altered the power generation system of his karate.

For comparison, here is the late Shoshin Nagamine, 10-dan, one of the top boys in Shorin. Note how much more robotic his approach is (even when doing the Okinawan dance).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C7nXRv0 ... re=related

Given that your man Yamashita is doing applications not form it is difficult to compare and contrast his shenfa.

[bigphatwong]

Thanks Doc. What I meant by different ancestors is that the Naha Te styles (Uechi, Goju, etc) mostly came from White Crane, whereas Shorin, and thus Shotokan, use a more conventional Shaolin type of power generation based on the low horse stance instead of upright like in Sanchin. Could it be that those arts have their roots in a "harder" Southern style, perhaps Hung Gar? Also, I've read of a possible historical link between Naihanchi kata and Hsing-i. Is there any truth to that, or is it mostly speculation?

[alexsuffolk]

If its 'Nagaboshi Tomio's' 'link'........its speculation.

[Doc Stier]

Thanks Doc. What I meant by different ancestors is that the Naha Te styles (Uechi, Goju, etc) mostly came from White Crane, whereas Shorin, and thus Shotokan, use a more conventional Shaolin type of power generation based on the low horse stance instead of upright like in Sanchin. Could it be that those arts have their roots in a "harder" Southern style, perhaps Hung Gar? Also, I've read of a possible historical link between Naihanchi kata and Hsing-i. Is there any truth to that, or is it mostly speculation?

I agree with your summation of these two 'family' groups of styles. They appear to be clearly derived from separate sources within the Southern Buddhist Temple system of monastery schools.

I was taught that the Naihanchi katas were named after the Southern Chinese martial artist, Nai Han-Chi, who initially brought them to Okinawa as a political ex-patriot. He is said to have specialized in Southern Shaolin Temple methods (Siu-Lum Pai), with no direct link to Hsing-Yi Chuan.

Having studied and practiced both extensively, I see no connection between the two.

[Doc Stier]

Given that your man Yamashita is doing applications not form it is difficult to compare and contrast his shenfa.

Andy:

I perceive a somewhat dismissive and disrespectful tone in your saying "...your man Yamashita".

Sensei Yamashita is not my man. He is his own man in every way....superbly trained, highly skilled, and very confident.
Yamashita is one of those rare individuals in any generation of martial artists who has always been incredibly focused and self-disciplined in his personal training. He practices like a madman and, as a result, possesses extra-ordinary skills which he effortlessly demonstrates as proof of his expertise. I would venture to say that Master Yamashita is quite capable of making a good account of himself in comparing skills with damned near anyone of any martial art style.

He is thus worthy of our respect for achieving levels of excellence in his martial art that most guys only dream of, but never acquire even in a lifetime of training.