vladimir pads & crowd work

[Ian]

some guys were asking so here it is. no pretty editing or anything!

[Walk the Torque]

Thanks Ian,

Like the elbow deflect to strike. I know what i'll be doing next session.

[64Palms]

Ian,

Having not trained in Systema or sparred with someone who trains it this post is merely based on my limited experience and on the video showing. Firstly the individual striking to the bare palms looks great (as WTT said the elbow deflect is quite nice). Unfortunately, however, the crowd work looks very impractical if not dangerous. Obviously this is a training session / demo but the movements and "flailing" of the arms really seems like an amateur-ish approach (i know Vlad is no amateur and have been highly impressed with some of his other works). In addition the participants seem to be moving like Zombies from a 1970's film and still seem to be getting close enough to do damage. Is this a common training method for crowd "work"?

[Ian]

Mr. Palms

Obviously this is a training session...

Correct. The difference between skill development drills and combat application. Most of systema drills are for skill development, with varying degrees of realism.

but the movements and "flailing" of the arms really seems like an amateur-ish approach

You say flailing, I say whipping. Have you ever been hit by such a strike?

In addition the participants seem to be moving like Zombies from a 1970's film and still seem to be getting close enough to do damage. Is this a common training method for crowd "work"?

Two problems, IMO.

1. Perhaps they already know that Vladimir hits hard and are reticent to attack for real. Personally I like to get a lot more up-close and personal with the instructors, and I wish they would attack more. But hey, I don't know them and can't really comment.

2. The purpose of the circle drill is to stay in the circle's center and deal with impact / recycle force / get used to that configuration of opponents etc. This is still skill development, not combat application. In reality you'd rapidly work your way out.

[64Palms]

Hi Ian,

You can just call me 64 - no need for the formality

Thanks for the prompt reply. I would say i have been hit by what seems to be a similar strike, however, not a systema practitioner (so easily could be very different). I actually had planned on visiting some systema people here in Sydney but can't seem to find them around. If you know of anyone please PM me. I must say though there seems to be a mix of "whip" and "flail" in this clip (i.e. more whip in the individual strikes and more throwing of the arm and legs in the crowd work).

As this seems to be a specific drill (as you said "circle drill") i retract my comments on it being amateurish. I clearly understand that drills are meant to be, well...drilled! And skill and technique expands from that. Thanks for posting the clip.

David

[C.J.Wang]

The whipping strikes remind me of Fujian White Crane and Tongbei.

[Dmitri]

some guys were asking so here it is. no pretty editing or anything!

Just to clarify... were you comparing this particular clip to SDC's multiple-attackers clip?

[Ian]

Just to clarify... were you comparing this particular clip to SDC's multiple-attackers clip?

Yes and no.

I was comparing the striking. Sorry if that wasn't clear. The rest of it is hard to compare as they're showing different things - Su is doing some kinda RBSD, Vlad is doing a drill.

Mainly the video is in response to some questions about systema pad work.

The Su clip for reference:

[Dmitri]

Well the way you phrased it there, "Lots of continuous striking on multiple pads and people. Similar to the Su dongchen mass attack clip but faster, sharper, and more aggressive.", had me wondering... I'm not seeing how what Vlad does there is in ANY way "faster, sharper, and more aggressive" than what Su is doing, so I wondered if that was indeed the clip.

[Ian]

On the subject of striking (which was what the topic was about), I did write "lots of continuous striking on multiple pads and people". Isn't there?

And from 1:05 onwards, Vlad does show shorter, sharper work that is faster than what Su is doing in that clip, no? Objectively faster?

FWIW, I was hardly saying Vlad's better; I was saying Vlad in this clip is working faster and sharper than Su in that clip. I think that's accurate, though it was never meant as a conclusive comparison of the two men's skills. Personally I think both have great material.

Anyway, just thought some people would be interested in seeing some good movement

[Josealb]

Nice. looks like Tongbei crowd control.