CCTV4: Ba Gua Zhang Docu

[SPJ]

http://v.youku.com/v_playlist/f3462947o1p7.html

[Bob]

I really appreciate your posting this SPJ.

I don't know, I have watched the first third of the frame---not really bytchin, but why do all of the bagua performances look like modifications of contemporary wushu? The arms flail about with no real root in the movements---there are better examples of traditional bagua players than these. Is this is part of a "who knows who" deal when they film these documents? Actually, a couple years back I knew someone who worked for CCTV and some of the programs are payback guan xi or guan xi creation. I understand that often times Wushu politics plays a role in who gets on these shows.

[SPJ]

the loading is very slow for me.

but I like this clip b/c it briefly discussed the origin of ba gua zhang and theory of ba gua in ba gua zhang neigong practice.

1. origin of ba gua zhang

Dong joined tai ping farmer uprising. they were anti qing rebellion. that was why Dong never mentioned his teachers' names. Dong probably learned and exchanged hands with teachers in the tai ping rebellion army. (according to grandson of Dong). the CCTV crews went to wen an county to investigate the source of Ba Gua Zhang. even thou the legends said ba gua zhang may come from daoist priests or qing cheng pai from si chuan-- but Dong summarized all of his learning and created Ba Gua Zhang. so it is not related to daoist temple. the original name of the boxing methods is called "zuan zhang".

2. spread of Ba Gua

Dong was a servent in a king's mansion. He was on a secret mission to assassinate the "emperor". one day, he walked thru the barriers to serve tea. His light step or ching gong was seen by the king. so the king asked him to exchange hands with shi ye at his mansion. Dong won easily with palm methods and quick steps. many royalties then came to learn from him.

Han Mu Xia used ba gua zhang to defeat russian wrestler and german "hercules". thus ba gua zhang was famous thruout china. the movie "wu lin zhi" depicted the tales of the "fights".

[SPJ]

3. the theory of ba gua and ba gua zhang neigong pracitce

a. standing in posture or zhan zhuang. one story is that Ren Wen Zhu had to stand in posture for 3 years. not only he regained health and not sick anymore. He also developed Beng Jing or suddenly extending/expanding outward internal power, which is the foundation training and what makes ba gua zhang work.

b. circle walking. the ba gua may represent 8 directions in the circle walking. this is the external application of the ba gua theory in the stepping.

c. breathing in and out or tu na. ba gua may represent 8 body parts/directions of the body parts. (Lu Zhong Ren explained)

chien kun is top and bottom or heaven and earth, the balance between the feet/root and upper body. focusing on both the top and the feet. or suspending. so 2 focusing points and not just all the power on the feet.

kan Li is the left and right. extending/expanding on both rib sides etc.

zhen is left shoulder and xun is the right foot.

tui gen--

[Bob]

SPJ, really appreciate your translations---content is worth reading.

Thanks!

[josh]

Interesting that they completely equate Bapanzhang with Baguazhang. Maybe they are trying to turn Wen'an county into the Chenjiagou of bagua?

[meeks]

but why do all of the bagua performances look like modifications of contemporary wushu? The arms flail about with no real root in the movements---there are better examples of traditional bagua players than these. Is this is part of a "who knows who" deal when they film these documents?

this is a perfect example of 'guan xi'. they only use 'honorable' people that are members of the communist party in good standing. They avoid people that are not party members and those are most likely the ones that actually HAVE real skill but were hunted down by the comm's during the revolution. So the ones they use are performing the gov't approved (rubber stamped) bagua that is all Beijing Opera inspired.

that's why it's so laughable the guys like LSY suddenly claim to have been training/hiding in temples (see 'the stolen history' thread) but manage to be dubbed 'coach of the year' in China. Major comm. party member, that guy.

[josh]

I wonder if it has anything to do with guanxi or not. But, the performances on there are not, as far as I can tell, the standard wushu bagua. It seems that most if not all of the young students that they show doing demos are from Ren Wenzhu's school (but I agree that they definitely jazzed up the performances to make them look pretty), and the two older guys that they focus on are Ren Wenzhu (son and student of Ren Zhicheng who wrote the book on Yinyang Bapanzhang) and Lu Zhongren (student of Xiao Haibo who was Ren Zhicheng's classmate). So everything being shown on this doc is actually "Bapanzhang" from Liu Zhenqing's lineage and it is being presented as mainstream (or even "original") baguazhang (the term "bapanzhang" was not used once in the whole documentary AFAIK).
Overall the documentary was pretty disappointing (not that I expect much from CCTV anyway). They are constantly showing clips from a movie as if that somehow provides a good example of real baguazhang, and continually describing BGZ in terms of its shen (mystical) qualities and abstract theory. Oh well... it's at least nice to see TCMA getting some mainstream exposure in the mainland media, if shows like this inspire young Chinese kids to get interested in martial arts and put down the World of Warcraft then I'm happy.

[Jarek]

Ren Wenzhu (son and student of Ren Zhicheng who wrote the book on Yinyang Bapanzhang)

Ren Wenzhu is neither Ren Zhicheng's son nor his student. AFAIK he studied mainly from Liu Hushan 刘虎山, Gao Junkui 高俊奎 as well as a few other disciples of Ren Zhicheng.

[Doc Stier]

....why do all of the bagua performances look like modifications of contemporary wushu?

Mostly because they are!

[josh]

Ren Wenzhu (son and student of Ren Zhicheng who wrote the book on Yinyang Bapanzhang)

Ren Wenzhu is neither Ren Zhicheng's son nor his student. AFAIK he studied mainly from Liu Hushan 刘虎山, Gao Junkui 高俊奎 as well as a few other disciples of Ren Zhicheng.

My mistake... not sure where I got that idea from. I should have reread your piece on him!

[taiwandeutscher]

but why do all of the bagua performances look like modifications of contemporary wushu? The arms flail about with no real root in the movements---there are better examples of traditional bagua players than these. Is this is part of a "who knows who" deal when they film these documents?

this is a perfect example of 'guan xi'. they only use 'honorable' people that are members of the communist party in good standing. They avoid people that are not party members and those are most likely the ones that actually HAVE real skill but were hunted down by the comm's during the revolution. So the ones they use are performing the gov't approved (rubber stamped) bagua that is all Beijing Opera inspired.

that's why it's so laughable the guys like LSY suddenly claim to have been training/hiding in temples (see 'the stolen history' thread) but manage to be dubbed 'coach of the year' in China. Major comm. party member, that guy.

So true!
And several other MAs have been marketed the same way, and 1000s don't know or don't want to know.

[bailewen]

The real Han Mu Xia btw:

http://static11.photo.sina.com.cn/middl ... 30f5ba&690



A public announcement of his defeat of the Russian including a pic of the medal he was awarded:

http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/photo/448 ... 0ef649#pic



Cheng Tinghua:

http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/photo/448 ... b08289#pic


Wow, this collection is great. There's even a pic of Gao Yi Sheng up there. That's Wu Mengxia on the left and I can't quite read the name on the right, looks like Wu Zhaoquan? The third character in his name is written in an older script. I can't say for sure.
http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/photo/448 ... a83c2ad12a

[Jarek]

Wow, this collection is great. There's even a pic of Gao Yi Sheng up there. That's Wu Mengxia on the left and I can't quite read the name on the right, looks like Wu Zhaoquan? The third character in his name is written in an older script. I can't say for sure.
http://photo.blog.sina.com.cn/photo/448 ... a83c2ad12a

I think it is Wu Zhaofeng 吴兆峰, they wrote the last character with 山 on top instead of side.

More about him here: http://baike.taiji.net.cn/index.php?doc-view-456.html

[bailewen]

cool. Thanks.