rare footage of GM Hong Junsheng

[AllanF]

The last 1:30mins is why i have posted this:

This is one of Hong Junsheng's tudi at the end there is footage from inside Hong's house with 2 students practicing Tuishou Hong watching.

http://www.56.com/u48/v_MzY0ODMzNDE.html

[Andy_S]

Interesting the two-man punching drill half-way through: Looks a lot like HsingI, but everything else in the clip is Taiji. Can anyone translate what it is they are doing? I have never come across this drill (indeed, or any drill like it) in Chen Taiji.

[Bob]

Andy, in the abstracted frame of Chen's that I learned, we have a similar movement and it can be drilled as a single moving posture out of the frame. Roughly speaking and using Jou Tsung Hwa's translations it is a modification of the 15th and 16th movement "Chop Opponent with Fist and Bending Back and Shoulder-Strike"---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA0Sk9XA ... re=related



The movement is at the 1:06 -1:18 mark---GM Liu called this "Cat Washing its Face" and compared to the above clip, arms are rotated by waist with elbows dropped and held closer to the body. As we retreat, we block, like the Hong clip, but after a series of blocks, we use the "Bending Back and Shoulder-Strike" in a forward position, out of a 40/60 stance with the elbow sweeping across the front of the opponent ending with an elbow strike to the head/throat.

My own teacher spent years drilling us in praying mantis and we find a couple of movements similar. Since I am relearning 6 Harmony Duan Chui, we find a lot of this too but done with a much "softer" touch. In the forms, you mostly find the movement executed out of a horse stance but in application that changes.

PS Of course, the abstracted form we play was constructed out of what Liu had exchanged with Chen Fake in 1928 and may have zhao bao influence--we just don't know but just keeping the record straight, it was not added in from baji and clearly not praying mantis.

[ors]

Andy?

Where is the mentioned part?

From 4:10 on? Then it is simply a part of "da lu". Done quite quickly. Nothing special. Hong's students put great emphasize to this kind of "toss back" the energy everywhere in their push hands.

Örs

[Andy_S]

Ors, Bob:

Sorry for not being clearer. The section I am talking about in the clip Allan posted is the two-man training that takes place from 2:17 - 2:53.

There is a lot in it I DONT like - inner blocks and retreating steps - but as I have never come across any kind of formalized two-man striking sets in Chen Taijiquan, it caught my eye. Are you familiar with this kind of 2-man set...?

[ChenFist]

Andy,
I don't speak Chinese but I have been told this is one of Hong's early disciples and teaching assistants. I believe this is a documentary about him. He also studied some form of longfist. The two person drill is longfist related and not based on Hong's method as far as I know.

[ors]

Oh, I see now! I missed that part for sure. That is certanly not a taiji drill. I would say it is xingyi, but I am not sure. It can be "longfist related" as ChenFist wrote. The speaker under this part sais something about the "previous life" of this man, but I can't understand clearly, just the part, that in Jinan he has met Hong Junsheng and became his student. I can't understand a word of the old man... Sorry! (My Chinese is quite limited...)

Örs

[AllanF]

I should have posted this earlier but got too excited by seeing footage of Hong Junsheng.

My Chinese still isn't too good so i can only get bits and pieces, but this is Xu Guicheng, who was a long time tudi of Hong. It says he started with Chang Quan (which may be where the two person set Andy is referring to comes from [EDIT: i see ChenFist already pointed that out]) and then began studying with Hong when he was 39 year old. That was all i could work out from watching the clip.

However i have found more info about Xu courtesy of one of Chen Zhonghua's many sites.

Xu Guicheng

Master Xu Guicheng started his martial arts career at the age of 6 and a half in 1930 with Jinan master Li Kuixiang. After 8 years of hard training, he basically mastered many bear hand forms, two-man forms and weapons routines of the traditional martial art. These forms include Monkey style, Maifu style, Wusheng Broadsword, Spring and Autumn Da Dao (similar to Guan Dao), Monkey King Staff, Qimei Staff, Yang Family Spear, Liuhe Spear, Chun Yang Sword and Qi Sword. He started competing in the Jinan annual martial art competitions and each time won won many awards. When he was 12 years old, he was a gold medalist in the youth section of the wushu competition. When he was 14 he won the Shandong provincial san da competition held in Qingdao.

He had received awards from the Shandong Martial Arts Academy, Shandong Jinde Association and was received by Shandong provincial leaders such as Han Fuqu, Shen Honglie and Ma Liang. These events were all news items in the local newspaper of the time.

When he was 39 years old, he became a disciple of grandmaster Hong Junsheng. As an indoor disciple, he embarked on a career in Chen Style Taijiquan. During this time, through the true transmission of Hong Junsheng, he received the intricacies of Chen Style Taijiquan. In 1983, he attended the Shanghai National Famous Taijiquan Masters Conference. He also participated in the revision and proof-reading of grandmaster Hong Junsheng's Chen Shi Taijiquan Practical Method book.

Master Xu Guicheng follows a strict martial moral standard. He does not teach taijiquan for personal gain. He stresses on the techniques of taijiquan. His teaching is serious and true to Hong Junsheng's teachings. Many people come to study from him. They come from USA, Japan, Germany, UK, Switzerland, Spain, and New Zealand.

Because of his many years of diligence in martial arts, he enjoys tremendous health at the age of 82. In 1995, Jinan television station did a personal interview about his life, work, health and taijiquan. It was televised on the Favors of Life network.

Master Xu is a shining example of the good of martial art and particularly, the good of taijiquan.

Allan

[AllanF]

This is Xu doing PH with Hong:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm4355yk5qI

[Andy_S]

Thanks gents, that answers my question.

[Bob]

Andy, if I understand what you have asked, blocking from the inside out, center line to outside, I have seen Wave Hands Like Clouds used like that and also we have a pigua movement that sets up for a throw that way. I have seen a drill from Yang's pushing hand, facing each other, side to side, that is like an extended wave hands like clouds whose movements go from the outside in and then change direction and go from the inside out.