BT vs 52 blocks guy on Dec 18

[strawdog]

You lost because you're not as good as you think you are.

Let me correct my self. Obviously, you weren't humbled. You're still the same loud mouth dude even in the light of your embarrassing performance after all those years of talking about how "real" your skills are compared to the other not so real bagua practitioners.

You should've been humbled by your ineptitude. You should've been humbled by your total lack of ability to defend yourself. You should have been humbled by your lack of fitness. You could not last 2 minutes without gassing! If the 52 blocks guy had little bit more ground sense you would've been passed out on the floor with BT asking "what happened to the Ba Gua?"

I have total respect for you fighting, but humble you are not. That is a shame because I thought you took the defeat in stride and I even thought it was cool when you said it "ain't over". Here I am imagining that you would re-focus your self and come back stronger because of the experience. I guess I was wrong to think better of you.

[maoshan]

I-Mon

Your right, Looking at yourself and being put into a situation where you can truly gauge your strengths and weaknesses is humbling.
I didn't use my Ba Gua, I wasn't centered And I just went to thug it out. I was wrong. Novell and everybody there was trying to tell me, But I wasn't there I bugged out period. But that dude did not humble me.What The hell you call throwing a punch while running away at the same time? What the hell is on the video? this dude doing nothing to me? come on man.
And strawdog,
What happened to you when you were supposed to step up? Huh? You was in NY.
No Call, No show is what happened!!!!! Don't pop shit!

[strawdog]

eh? When was I in NY? Step to what?

Is there someone posing as me? Poor bastard.

Now you're just being silly and making things up. Grasping for straws???

[maoshan]

How good do I think I am straw?
Tell me.

[strawdog]

No.

I'm done here.

[Andy_S]

Maoshan:

Glad to see you back here.

RE: "humbled" or not - as you say, matter of interpretation. However, I think you will find there is a consensus opinion. As to whether you decided to 'thug it out' or whether 'your head was not there,' no comment, but if you train and teach MA seriously, yet don't/can't/won't use it in your one fight that is captured on-cam and posted on-line....well, no comment again.

The fact that you are actively rucking at 45 is great, and if you are going to set up an official match after BT's - even greater. Are you doing any groundwork in preparation?

And as you seem interested: I''m 43, and apart bar the occasional roll session, most of my sparring is PH/stand up grappling. I am certainly not taking challenges in the park - so respect to you on that.

[yusuf]

Maoshan..

I would like to ask ...i am still intrigued by this idea of being able to select which art to use in a fight.. i'm not sure how it works for competitions / challenges but if a fight is happening all that comes out is the sum of my training history.. why berate yourself over it not being ba gua .. why not just look at the holes in your game and fix those?

cheers

yusuf

[cloudz]

Yep _ I'm with Yusef on that. All the style thing is really kinda silly in a way. i mean at some point if you train enough in the right way with putting xyz into your fighting at some point it will show up as a kind of flavour or certain traits and favoured elements from the style will come out - sure. But again I'm suspicious of some expectations - i don't know. But fighting is fighting and all styles share more in common than they do not. Striking, wrestling etc - you know the story. But I think style is more individual than some want to accept. I don't really believe that there's some definitive idealized bagua or tc style etc. for real full contact fighting that people must realize or live up to. I've yet to see such a thing in our times. And who knows how and if it ever existed as we imagine. Once upon a time it was just a way a guy trained to fight the way he fought.. or wanted to fight. Taking what he could - much the way Yusef described the process.

Is the ideal a factory conveyer belt churning out carbon copy fighters - I don't think so. it doesn't happen in boxing, fighters still retain a certain style of their own.

First things first is get to a point where you can fight well with everything you like to train and stuff you just plain need to train to fill whatever gaps according to what you may be facing. Whatever the end result when you fight - that's your level. As long as you do your best, everything else is bollocks.

Sorry to hear that you weren't at the races that day - it can happen to anyone, props for doing it at your age. and better luck next time.

[Wave Cleaver]

Maoshan

Tell me ... during the fight .. when you had him by the neck before he took you down ... could you have broken it?

[Wanderingdragon]

The fact is you weren't in that fight because you are 43 , in your mind you were probably thinking * what the hell am I doing , I'm a groewn ass man *. or * I'm gonna blaze this Motha F@*k%r and go on to the crib, damn if I hurt him I go to jail ... for playin Kung Fu, F that I'm grown, let me stop this dumb shit ... Oops... Now I'm on the ground , I'm 43 years old , got Ba Gua all up in my system and I'm down here lookin like pussy, how'd I do that, cause he sho didn't *
I'm 55 and when I started learning kung fu years ago I already knew I could whoop somebodies ass I just wanted to be cool doin it, ala Bruce Lee, but instead I stopped fighting because of how deadly this stuff could be, over time I rediscovered the fun in fighting by controlling what happened, if I get hit its my fault ...train harder... if I tag someone too hard ...my fault... lack of control ...train harder , now fighting is still fun. It's the art , you can still make friends through a fight , like the old days before everybody wanted to shoot somebody. Be down my brother

[middleway]

The fact is you weren't in that fight because you are 43 , in your mind you were probably thinking * what the hell am I doing , I'm a groewn ass man *. or * I'm gonna blaze this Motha F@*k%r and go on to the crib, damn if I hurt him I go to jail ... for playin Kung Fu, F that I'm grown, let me stop this dumb shit ... Oops... Now I'm on the ground , I'm 43 years old , got Ba Gua all up in my system and I'm down here lookin like pussy, how'd I do that, cause he sho didn't *

If this is true .... Then all that work on bagua means nothing as there was no center and no self control, just ego and the 'big i am'. I hope that at the age of 43 i am better able to not talk trash and get into schoolyard fights. The approach BT is taking is much better ... but still there is that trash talk.... Which i honestly dont understand.

People say stuff about people ... When you get bent out of shape by someone saying something stupid .... stupid things happen.

Maoshan, heres an honest question .... after working on Ba gua for YEARS ... teaching ba gua ... putting yourself up there as the one with the 'real' ba gua ... trash talking others who have trained longer but from other lines ........ Where o Where was the Shen Fa of Ba gua? ? ? I dont mean that in a trash talky way at all. BUT after ALLLL that training the body hasnt changed? the way you express force hasnt changed??? you NATURAL response hasnt changed?

As yusuf pointed out ... i cant get my head round that!! Either you change through your practice or you aint practicing. There is no 'off / on" switch with this stuff.

YOUR 'ba gua' let you down ... it wasnt the other way around ... there is something wrong with your 'ba gua' (or training)

Course they are just my thoughts ... and from across the pond they mean nothing.

all the best
Chris

[Juan]

Yep _ I'm with Yusef on that. All the style thing is really kinda silly in a way. i mean at some point if you train enough in the right way with putting xyz into your fighting at some point it will show up as a kind of flavour or certain traits and favoured elements from the style will come out - sure. But again I'm suspicious of some expectations - i don't know. But fighting is fighting and all styles share more in common than they do not. Striking, wrestling etc - you know the story. But I think style is more individual than some want to accept. I don't really believe that there's some definitive idealized bagua or tc style etc. for real full contact fighting that people must realize or live up to. I've yet to see such a thing in our times. And who knows how and if it ever existed as we imagine. Once upon a time it was just a way a guy trained to fight the way he fought.. or wanted to fight. Taking what he could - much the way Yusef described the process.

Is the ideal a factory conveyer belt churning out carbon copy fighters - I don't think so. it doesn't happen in boxing, fighters still retain a certain style of their own.

First things first is get to a point where you can fight well with everything you like to train and stuff you just plain need to train to fill whatever gaps according to what you may be facing. Whatever the end result when you fight - that's your level. As long as you do your best, everything else is bollocks.

Sorry to hear that you weren't at the races that day - it can happen to anyone, props for doing it at your age. and better luck next time.

+1
great post!

[Muad'dib]

Where's the mao shan fight clip, can't find it.

[Wanderingdragon]

I was hoping Maoshan would step up and say something like
"I'm sorry but that clip embarasses me, so I've removed it from circulation"
Nope, never happen

[Doc Stier]

".... after working on Ba gua for YEARS ... teaching ba gua ... putting yourself up there as the one with the 'real' ba gua ... trash talking others who have trained longer but from other lines ........ Where o Where was the Shen Fa of Ba gua? ? ? I dont mean that in a trash talky way at all. BUT after ALLLL that training the body hasnt changed? the way you express force hasnt changed??? you NATURAL response hasnt changed?

As yusuf pointed out ... i cant get my head round that!! Either you change through your practice or you aint practicing. There is no 'off / on" switch with this stuff.

YOUR 'ba gua' let you down ... it wasnt the other way around ... there is something wrong with your 'ba gua' (or training)

Good points. Proper training should program the principles and techniques into your subconscious mind, where they become a part of your natural survival instinct and manifest themselves in every automatic reaction and every spontaneous response in combat. 'Downloading' the principles and techniques of your martial art onto the 'hard drive' of your deeper mind is really the foundation of all real internal arts, IMO.

Without that kind of inner core programming, personal combat is basically either reduced to external factors that are difficult to consciously control or inner factors that are not able to be immediately changed in the heat of combat. Thus, all actions and reactions become influenced by variables like fight location and circumstances, personal physical fitness and conditioning, athletic stamina and endurance, mental presence during the fight, emotional reactions to the immediate stress of the situation, conscious decision making ability under lots of pressure, and so forth.

As a result, when stress is high and the pressure is great, normally effective decision making often becomes confused and scattered, normal confidence lessens, and things can quickly take a downward spiral to defeat. When physical fitness and conditioning are poor as well, all of the above factors will usually be aggravated with the sudden realization that neither mind nor body are up to the mark enough to get the job done...right here, right now.

Damn, that's an awful feeling, and not one that many guys want to repeat if they can avoid doing so.