PUsh Hand Jia You!

[jasonf]

http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=JiemyDIPT ... re=related

[fuga]

at least the guy got up smiling after he got the shirt pulled over his head!

[qiphlow]

i saw no push hands in that clip. good wrestling, though.

[AllanF]

I quite liked it, some wrestling yes but there was a couple of nice moments also. Pretty standard competition set up in China

[jasonf]

i saw no push hands in that clip. good wrestling, though.

Mind showing us what is push hands?

[qiphlow]

this:


this:


this too:

[bruce]

this:

i do not understand in the ma clips, until i feel that type of thing i do not think i can understand what is going on there.
-why the student is reacting the way he is?
-what is the lesson being taught in that video?
-how is this lesson applied to actual self defense from a strong aggressive attacker?

[mixjourneyman]

i saw no push hands in that clip. good wrestling, though.

Phlow my brother, I think push hands encompasses a very wide range of practice possibilities. Wrestling can and should be part of that.

Actually, when I studied at Eddie Wu's studio (not with the master himself mind you, but one of his top students) they had something like nine different kinds of push hands and yes, one of them was moving step freestyle wrestling.

[qiphlow]

@ bruce:
i don't know why the student reacts that way, but during my brief stint with my yiquan teacher i had more than one ph session in which he got a similar reaction from me. i was not being cooperative at the time, although i was not trying to knock his block off, either.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Anyone who has seen my comments before on clips may recognise a sort of polarity thing going on here but although on one level it is recognisable as not Tui Shou, I thought there was some good Taiji principles going on there in this clip and really liked it. The winner shows overall much better rooting, and I totally take my hat off to him when with weight distribution and ease he picks the soldier (I'm totally pressuming here as a lot of miltiary and police force in mainland China take part in theseTui Shou competions ) and completes the bloke.
You can sense that the winner's Ting Jin is of note in this.

[bruce]

@ bruce:
i don't know why the student reacts that way, but during my brief stint with my yiquan teacher i had more than one ph session in which he got a similar reaction from me. i was not being cooperative at the time, although i was not trying to knock his block off, either.

i am interested in understanding the skills ma is showing but in the context they are shown it does not make sense to me.
these students are being very willing. i understand for the sake of learning you have to sometimes just let things work but ...

[AllanF]

qiphlow: The is a slight problem with the comparision you gave in that none of the 3 clips you posted were competitive! They were about practicing ting jin and in that context there is no winner and no losser per se it is all about learning. In the OP it is all about winning and lossing, this immediatly changes things. Guarentee if it was a competition the 3 examples would not look like that.

[qiphlow]

qiphlow: The is a slight problem with the comparision you gave in that none of the 3 clips you posted were competitive! They were about practicing ting jin and in that context there is no winner and no losser per se it is all about learning. In the OP it is all about winning and lossing, this immediatly changes things. Guarentee if it was a competition the 3 examples would not look like that.

i don't believe that ph should be a sport. i've found that my own (and many folks that i've pushed with, but certainly not everyone i've pushed with) learning process in ph suffers when it gets competitive. and don't we all practice ph to actually learn something?

[jasonf]

Qiphlow, Thanks for posting the vids.
"i don't believe that ph should be a sport. i've found that my own (and many folks that i've pushed with, but certainly not everyone i've pushed with) learning process in ph suffers when it gets competitive. and don't we all practice ph to actually learn something?"
It isn't very fair to call something not PH because it doesn't fit your concept of PH. Loads of people play very light and slow, they get technical and smooth, but may get knocked on their ass when they suddenly across someone very aggressive and strong is put in front of them...Both are good in their own right, but it seems in poor taste to so loosely discount a person and their skill.

[qiphlow]

i made no comment about the people in the OP or their skill. all i said was i didn't see any push hands in the clip. i did see some good wrestling skill. push hands (at least the way i learned it and try to play it) is not about being aggressive and strong, IMO. it's a training exercise. but i realize everyone's got their own ideas about these things, so i'll go ahead and shut my pie hole now.